Chin ups....

#1
Hi guys im currently training so I can get in the infantry and doing chin ups is where I fall down... basically im 23yrs old 6ft8 and about 17 stone, im not weak but seem to lack the strength for this. Im observing a diet and train 3 times a week on my upper body and abs etc and every Tuesday and Thursday I either run or do a 2hr hike with 20kgs on my back...... What particular exercise could I do to help me with chin ups specifically?
 
#3
Cpt_Subtext said:
Hi guys im currently training so I can get in the infantry and doing chin ups is where I fall down... basically im 23yrs old 6ft8 and about 17 stone, im not weak but seem to lack the strength for this. Im observing a diet and train 3 times a week on my upper body and abs etc and every Tuesday and Thursday I either run or do a 2hr hike with 20kgs on my back...... What particular exercise could I do to help me with chin ups specifically?
That might be your problem mate - at 6' 8" I reckon that 17 stone would be about right so why diet?

If you're not getting in the right amount of (or proper) foodstuffs your energy levels will be sh1te and you will train like a girl.

If your diet is healthy then it may be that it's early days and you are just a fanny. Keep practicing mate and get on the multi-gym on the pull-down bars.
 
#4
Cpt_Subtext said:
doing chin ups is where I fall down...
Lol, I can see what you've done there! :wink:



Can you get to a gym? Try doing the same type of exercise but on a machine and aim for less weight but more repetitions. Alternate this with your normal chin ups and you should notice a difference.


Also, I've always found if you lay off choking the bishop for a day or two, it helps :D
 
#5
Lmao cheeky buggers.... E-Layer I was told by the AFCO to get down to about 15 and a half stone before they'd take me which is why im dieting... well eating healthy

As for doing the chin ups im managing 1, 2 max if I lay off beating my meat lol j/k

thanks for the advice though....
 
#6
Mate iv just been to the ADSC today and yesterday and the lads who wanted to join the Infantry done about 3-5 chinups so you should have no probs, but do try to get them up into the 6-10 range.

DH
 
#7
I only managed 7 chin ups for my selection for the Infantry to be honest but on my last chin up I wouldn't give up so I think aslong as you can do a few and show that your really determined you might get through.
I'd hate to be lifting 17stone thought christ almighty 12stone was enough for me.
 
#8
Thanks guys, Birdy 17stone is a royal pain to lift.... Basically I figure hammer the upper body and get stronger too... also gonna invest in a new bar... hell even if I just hang from it and try to pull up ive gotta be doing something to the muscle..... ahwell will soon see!
 
#9
Cpt_Subtext,

It's not just a question of basic strength, which I'm sure is already above average in your case. At six-eight, you've got the problem of extremely long levers to overcome. It's a mechanical problem more than anything else.

To illustrate the point; I recently saw a little eight-year-old girl shift 450 kilos with ease (she did EIGHT reps) on the sliding-chair leg-machine, while all the rufty-tufties were huffing and puffing. Short levers, see.

Try "slow-drops" to quickly build up strength in your biceps, for those are the muscles mainly concerned in pull-ups.

Use a chair, stool (at six-eight, just standing on tiptoe will probably do it) to get your chin above the bar. Grasp the bar in the "completed pull-up" stance and hang there for about ten seconds, pulling your chest against the bar as firmly as you can. Then let yourself down slowly and in a very controlled way, until your arms are fully stretched. The "drop" should take between seven and ten seconds. Try to do two sets of three drops with a minute break between sets. You can add sets, or increase the reps in the sets as required. You'll notice a difference in a very short time.

MsG
 
#10
Hey lads,

Would someone mind describing the teqhnique required for chin-ups in the army?

Hands facing you, or facing away? Thumbs closing the grip, or open?

Cheers :D
 
#11
Army its always been palms in, arms shoulder width apart. The Marines do the palms out variety. Having now left the army I stick to the palms out type and find that when I do the other kind they are very easy now. Be careful if you get one of those doorway bars, 17 stone will easily dislodge it if it isnt fitted correctly.
 
#12
crashdummy said:
Hey lads,

Would someone mind describing the teqhnique required for chin-ups in the army?

Hands facing you, or facing away? Thumbs closing the grip, or open?

Cheers :D
crashdummy, biceps have two connecting tendons to the elbow (hence the "bi" prefix). When you do pull-ups with your palms towards you, both parts of the muscle pull together and make the task easier. You can easily check this by bending your elbow to 90 degrees with your palm up. Now grip the tendons at the base of your bicep near your elbow between thumb and forefinger and turn your hand over so that it's palm downwards. You'll feel the two tendons move apart. That's what makes palm-out pull-ups so much more difficult. However, such pull-ups tend to thicken the bicep nearer to the elbow, so that it doesn't look as bunched up when flexed.

Hope this helps

MsG
 
#15
crashdummy said:
I've been training so far with my palms facing out, in your opinion should I swap around?

Thanks Mag and Bugsy 8)
What I do is both exercises on a 1:2 basis, i.e. one palm-out pull-up for every two palm-in pull-ups. On a daily basis (for me), this works out at 20 palm-in pull-ups, pause, 10 palm-out pull-ups, pause, 20 palm-in pull-ups, pause, 10 palm-out pull-ups, total collapse. :D

But now you know the basics and why, you may want to develop your own little programme.

MsG
 
#17
Me and Bugsy have disagreed on this subject in the past on this forum, he seems to think biceps play the more important role, but I believe the back muscles contribute more to the movement.

In my opinion this is the one of the best ways to move your numbers up on Chins.

http://www.cbass.com/Pavel'sLadders.htm
 
#18
Hey bulldoze your link mentions lots of little sets over the day is a good way to gain reps but its never worked for me when I did it, (10-16 x 40 (One set per hour)), admittedly though I wasnt doing it for pullups so is it different for them?


Plus why does every online fitness article ive ever seen have "As done by X special forces formation" lol
 
#19
bulldoze said:
Me and Bugsy have disagreed on this subject in the past on this forum, he seems to think biceps play the more important role, but I believe the back muscles contribute more to the movement.
Yes we have had this before, bulldoze, and the very fact that you're mentioning it again means you’ve learned nothing about basic anatomy in the meantime.

The reason why I’ve decided to address your tiresome post is because you seem determined to give people false information on the (erroneous) basis of "if-I-believe-it,-it must-be-true". The sad thing is that people might tend to think you have a point if you say it often enough. So let's clear up this point and then you can go back to your doubtful and ill-informed training methods and continue to wonder why you're making no progress.

The muscles involved in pull-ups are the biceps and, to a very much lesser extent, the latissmus dorsi muscles (the long muscles along the edges of the back which give the upper torso its V-shape). The biceps pull the upper arms to the forearms (and thus to the bar), while the lats (working on a VERY short-lever basis) pull the upper arms against the body. These muscles are so strong and have such a lever-advantage that they’ll easily bear ten times the stress put on the biceps.

The only time when the latissmus dorsi (and you didn’t actually stipulate which “back muscles”, bulldoze) play a dominant part in pull-ups is wide-grip, palms-away pull-ups, which are expressly carried out to develop those very muscles.

But if you’re so convinced that “back muscles” play the predominant part in ordinary pull-ups, here’s a question for you, bulldoze: just how many people do you know who reach/ed their maximum in ordinary (British Army style) pull-ups and then complained that it was because their “back muscles” gave/had given out?

Having said that, I’d certainly like to hear opinions from others who know much more about training and anatomy than bulldoze seems to.

MsG
 
#20
You seem intent on leading this into a slanging match - for the moment i will desist, tempting though it is to retaliate.

from the wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chin-up

Chin-ups target the Latissimus Dorsi, The Latissimus Dorsi are assisted by the; Brachialis; Brachioradialis; Biceps Brachii; Teres Major; Deltoid, Posterior; Infraspinatus; Teres Minor; Rhomboids; Levator Scapulae; Trapezius, Lower; Trapezius, Middle; and the Pectoralis Minor.

To reiterate my earlier post the chin up is a classic compound exercise it uses many muscle groups but primarily (look it up again) it uses the back muscles.

Bugsy I have met many people like you over the years, you collect all the qualifications but you omit the most important one - experience. Some of the most qualified coaches talk absolute b*llocks and it only takes one look at them to know why - most of them have never pushed themselves in any way or in any athletic endeavour, is this you?

Oops! I guess I did retaliate a bit after all.
 
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