Children failed by "flawed" teaching methods

#1
http://tinyurl.com/fzw9h

I have been known to help my daughter with her homework, and admit that the methods used to teach numeracy had me flabbergasted. Talk about a long way round ! I shall now be teaching her the good old fashioned way !
 

missy

Old-Salt
#2
Can remember being taught really "useful" stuff like algebra, geometry etc all things i'm sure will be "useful" during my life....
Was never taught how to give change, add, take away division etc this was a pain as it's all the stuff which would be useful in everyday life especially in my current job and now having to teach myself!!!
Teacher's have all these new teaching methods, but they don't work, my dad used to teach me maths etc the way he learnt and it was much more straight forward!
 
#3
missy said:
Can remember being taught really "useful" stuff like algebra, geometry etc
Funny. I used Pythagorus (Spelling?) the other day. I do have a proper job though.

missy said:
Was never taught how to give change, add, take away division etc
I thought the tills, in McDonalds, worked it out for you?
 

missy

Old-Salt
#4
StabTiffy2B said:
missy said:
Can remember being taught really "useful" stuff like algebra, geometry etc
Funny. I used Pythagorus (Spelling?) the other day. I do have a proper job though.

missy said:
Was never taught how to give change, add, take away division etc
I thought the tills, in McDonalds, worked it out for you?
If only every job where maths was involved would work it out for you!!! Thank god for pocket calculators!
I don't disagree with teaching algebra but I found it very fustrating that it was the main focus and the "basic" stuff was never taught, even things like times tables
 
#5
The only people that dont know what is wrong with the teaching methods is the teaching profession.
 
#7
johnny said:
If you can, do

If you can't, teach
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who can't teach, teach teachers
Those who can't teach teachers, do educational research

(spoken as a lecturer myself!)
 
#8
johnny said:
The only people that dont know what is wrong with the teaching methods is the teaching profession.
The teachers in the classroom know exactly what is wrong with the teaching profession. :x
Unfortunately, its not teachers that make the doctrine that has to be implemented in the classroom. Its another targets related ball-ache.
 
#9
My better half teaches at a school under special meaures, her department english however perform massively above the national level, pupils receiving A and A star whatever that is

Talking about spelling she said she has A perfomance pupils that cannnot spell and that spelling isn't important argueing that to bring up pupils spelling to an acceptable level was too time consuming, teachers now only partially mark spelling in GCsE english, targeting only subject specific spellings and what they call "Core spelling"

spelling only accounts for three percent of final grade THATs IN ENGLIsH FFs

Apparently I should appreciate a well thought out answer intelligently presented even if it is full of spelling mistakes, rather than a less articulate anwer well presented with no spelling mistake

I was under the impression that spelling was a building block as opposed to a dispensible skill of no real importance

The discussion closed quickly when I realised that my arguement against this kind of nonsense was undermining the whole assement process and was directly questioning her excellent "On paper results"

I think the system is letting down the pupils, sending them into the world with an inflated perception of their own abilities through the award of high GCsE grade which pander only to the Governments twisted results, targets and statistics

If I get a CV in my intray or even an email with sh@t spelling, its either going to go in file 13 or at least effect my impression of the sender quite negatively

Call me old fashioned

Please note dyslexia is not included in this dicussion

Apoloie for any sp mistakes in advance

I
 
#10
They dont even have performance related teaching groups, star pupils are taught along side less able characters, this is suppossed to bring on the weaker pupils and increase their grade

If everyone is getting top grade, something is very wrong and you are actually limiting the high flyers and everyone looses

If you control the criteria, the content, the assessment, and the teaching method you control the statistics

Generations of kid that can tell you how they feel, what their rights are, what they want, but cannot pen a simple letter without realising the importance of spelling
 
#11
johnny said:
If you can, do

If you can't, teach
Oi!

I resemble that accusation. Still, most of the reason that I can't do is that I finish work at five to four and I'm not there for eighteen weeks a year in the first place!
 
#12
thegimp said:
They dont even have performance related teaching groups, star pupils are taught along side less able characters, this is suppossed to bring on the weaker pupils and increase their grade

If everyone is getting top grade, something is very wrong and you are actually limiting the high flyers and everyone looses

If you control the criteria, the content, the assessment, and the teaching method you control the statistics

Generations of kid that can tell you how they feel, what their rights are, what they want, but cannot pen a simple letter without realising the importance of spelling
Write "loses" out 10 times!
Now that Modern foreign Languages are no longer compulsory,after Key Stage 3 (KS3) kids now don't learn what a verb, noun or adjective is.
 
#13
There are too few of us teaching with the right attitude - i.e. get it right you little horror.....why? Targets, bloody non falling when hit targets. We hit the target, the government moves it, hit again, it becomes increasingly mobile....

I KNOW that kids in my latest S4 bottom set (16 year old - equiv of Y10/KS4 in England/Wales) cannot spell properly and have difficulty in doing stuff I was expected and able to do when I was 12! I'm hitting my S3 top set with poem after poem, story after story and trying to get them to be able to at least use English "as wot it is spoke or written". But they KNOW the standard needed for Higher is less than what we needed for O Levels in the late 70s so why should they bother? The number of semi-illerate half wits in my university who couldn't express themselves on paper....I remember soldiers who couldn't read or write in one of my last units before getting out. Bloody awkward if the instructions say 'Face TOWARDS enemy'.......or 'Do NOT push this big red button'

You know what the result will be don't you? Blair and his gang want everyone to be able to go to uni etc etc but they can't write/manage or lead so who do you think will end up getting all the plum command jobs in civvie street? The public school boys/girls and the 'elite' class kids who CAN read/write etc thanks to daddy spending thousands on them.

Blair and his public school chums in NuLabour are basically setting up the UK to become pre-Victorian again since the UK will eventually become a morass of plebs with little or no education and a select few running the show....hmm 1984 is truer than we think!

PS Any spelling errors are typing errors and are acceptable under the 15th Article of the Shadow Proclamation: The Doctor says so.
 
#14
And another thing

If you've seen "teachers"

I can assure you the ones I've experienced are much much worse in every way.............................................
 
#15
Wench3000 said:
johnny said:
The only people that dont know what is wrong with the teaching methods is the teaching profession.
The teachers in the classroom know exactly what is wrong with the teaching profession. :x
Unfortunately, its not teachers that make the doctrine that has to be implemented in the classroom. Its another targets related ball-ache.
COULDN'T AGREE MORE, W!

The problem isn't teachers per se - it's the army of "educationalists", LEA "advisers", "think tank" wonks and showboating politicians who interfere constantly with what goes on in the classroom.

Compounded by - generally - spineless heads who have only got to be where they are by appeasing the aforementioned and "following orders" from above.

I've been teaching for over 20 years, and have been staggered by the amount of constant farting about, reinvention of wheels, and ever increasing bureaucratic nonsense (not to mention wastage of money!) that occurs in state education. Spent a couple of years in the private sector - the contrast was amazing.

Ref those who laugh at teachers/ think it easy: am presently mentoring a couple of new entrants to the profession. Both are "late entrants": one ex forces, plus industrial experience; the other set up and ran her own small business (pretty successfully) for 10 years. After one week in the job both say they're totally knackered and just want to sleep all week-end.

Continuing to kick against the prikcs.

Wessex.
 
#16
Wessex

Different will always appear hard, a new job will always stretch people for a while

As in every sphere of human endeavour there is good, bad and the mediocre

teachers are the "Experts" if the education system is going down sh@t alley perhaps they should call it out................however the money is reasonable so don't rock the boat

From a purely personal point of view, I've yet to meet a teacher who didn't appear to be a pedestrian in life

I grew and learned with some real firebrands, passionate about their stuff and strong in character (However bonkers)
 
#17
thegimp said:
Wessex

Different will always appear hard, a new job will always stretch people for a while

As in every sphere of human endeavour there is good, bad and the mediocre

teachers are the "Experts" if the education system is going down sh@t alley perhaps they should call it out................however the money is reasonable so don't rock the boat

From a purely personal point of view, I've yet to meet a teacher who didn't appear to be a pedestrian in life

I grew and learned with some real firebrands, passionate about their stuff and strong in character (However bonkers)
You're right, of course - a lot to take on board at first, steep learning curves etc. And, yes, there are plenty of mediocrities in teaching, but also quite a few "firebrands", "bonkers" types, full of enthusiasm & passion for what they do.

I'm not complaining about pay; nor have I ever done.

Plenty of us DO "call out the system", but it can get pretty wearing year on year, and the sad thing is how many good people leave teaching after a few years having been ground down by it all. Giving a toss can seem pretty futile at times, especially if you have the misfortune to teach in some schools that I've had experience of. Last Summer 14 (mainly recently qualified) teachers in a school I once taught in resigned at the last poss moment (8 with no jobs to go to) because they'd just had enough (primarily of the idiot head) and could no longer be arrsed; 5 to my certain knowledge have left teaching vowing never to return. IMO, that particular school simply could not afford to lose 10 of those teachers (notably maths, science & languages), but have the head, LEA etc learned anything fom this? I think not: all that's been produced in response to a clear "crisis of leadership" has been a lot of self-justifying blather - should be familiar to a military person?! A sad reflection of the state we're in.

Maybe we teachers are, in your terms, "pedestrian in life", but by last July, having directed a school play, coached/ ref'd rugby, taught 5 A level sets (mostly with 20+ pupils in each), plus all the other stuff (and contemplating spending 3 weeks of Summer hols on an "expedition" overseas in the company of adolescents of widely varying degrees of competence/ reliability), it sure didn't feel that way. I'm sat here now simply because the only way to meet all commitments properly is to mark 6th form work very late at night/ early in morning. I'm not untypical in my school, and all I ask is that people "outside the loop" at least consider the possibility that teaching may not necessarily be quite the easy option of popular belief.

Pootling off to continue my pedestrian existence -

Best wishes etc,

Wessex.
 

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