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Child Soldiers?

#1
Why do some AIs seem to bang on about not teaching military type subjects. Stating the ACF should concentrate on map reading, first aid and A/T.

For gods sake the kids join the ACF because of the title ARMY! They want to learn about the army, which strangely includes fieldcraft and firing weapons other than air rifles.

There are plenty of other youth organisations out there who cater for non military type activities. Scouts, Guides, ATC etc...

If you dont want to teach mil skills, fieldcraft, shooting etc, GO AND JOIN THE SCOUTS.
 
#2
Well said! When I was in the ACF back in the pre-Thatcher days (yes it was that long ago), I used to love going home with my shoulder bruised to buggery due to the .303 nearly shattering my scrawny body!!
 
#3
girth said:
Why do some AIs seem to bang on about not teaching military type subjects. Stating the ACF should concentrate on map reading, first aid and A/T.

For gods sake the kids join the ACF because of the title ARMY! They want to learn about the army, which strangely includes fieldcraft and firing weapons other than air rifles.

There are plenty of other youth organisations out there who cater for non military type activities. Scouts, Guides, ATC etc...

If you dont want to teach mil skills, fieldcraft, shooting etc, GO AND JOIN THE SCOUTS.
Utter Bolloxs IMHO
Things like First Aid, Map Reading and discipline to the cadets are an important part of their training and throwing in the occassional fieldcraft or range packet is ok but not essential. Once they have learned the basics in the ACF they then can proceed into the Regulars if they are liking it and then get a very structured, properely instructed lesson rather being taught it wrong by AI's who are doing their best but maybe not 100% in the know. Ive seen lots of ec Cadets who join the Army then have to re-learn everything from scratch because of minor discrepencies with thier cadet training. This is not a dig at the cadets or instructors but reality is dont make them run before they walk.
 
#4
girth said:
Why do some AIs seem to bang on about not teaching military type subjects. Stating the ACF should concentrate on map reading, first aid and A/T.

For gods sake the kids join the ACF because of the title ARMY! They want to learn about the army, which strangely includes fieldcraft and firing weapons other than air rifles.

There are plenty of other youth organisations out there who cater for non military type activities. Scouts, Guides, ATC etc...

If you dont want to teach mil skills, fieldcraft, shooting etc, GO AND JOIN THE SCOUTS.
I am an instructor with the ATC at Boscombe and we do as much if not more military type activities in green than the local ACF units!
 
#6
Too many instructors are paranoid about being accosted by urban parents asking why their child comes home talking about "section battle drills" and "destroying the enemy". The solution is to get real soldiers (ask around before using the CTT, because it's full of sergeants who are their because they're about to retire or have pissed off the RSM) to teach at first, then let the senior cadets teach the young 'uns. This gets everyone involved; all you need to do is stand and watch, intervene only if necessary and book plenty of training weekends.
 
#7
I want some of them jungle wellies!!!!
They look ally as fook.


Iron, not going to get into a mass debate (geddit) but alot of the time cadets have to 're-learn' things because the manuals they teach from are about 10 years out of date, as are some of the officers in the ACF.

To be fair what would be the point of the ARMY cadet force without weapons and fieldcraft?
It would be the scouts.
We've allready got scouts, cadets dont like em much.
Hard to instill discipline into yoof if they have nothing to be disciplined about.
 
#9
suits_U said:
I want some of them jungle wellies!!!!
They look ally as fook.


Iron, not going to get into a mass debate (geddit) but alot of the time cadets have to 're-learn' things because the manuals they teach from are about 10 years out of date, as are some of the officers in the ACF.

To be fair what would be the point of the ARMY cadet force without weapons and fieldcraft?
It would be the scouts.
We've allready got scouts, cadets dont like em much.
Hard to instill discipline into yoof if they have nothing to be disciplined about.
Totally agree I wasnt saying dont do any and I am still serving and have taught lessons at numerous ACF detachments as favours when I was a recruiter on various lessons mainly to senior cadets. My son before he joined the Army was a cadet aswell so i have seen it from parents view aswell. All Im saying is that it is still a youth organisation with the discipline side and other things thrown in, we dont want a hitler youth on our hands. After being a scout a long, long time ago there is a massive difference between the two and i would suggest (and have done) to youngsters to go to cadets before joining the regs as its a good stepping stone, but making a mini rambo before he joins can be embarrassing for the young chap when he joins up as most will get knocked down a peg or two when they think they know it all.
 
#10
Ah comment now understood, and its a fair one.
Although I would tend to argue that once the instructor knows said rambo type cadet is going into the forces, they start to bring them back down to earth and make them realise the regs is a totally different ball game.
Again it is something that, in my eyes, falls back on to the instructors at the unit, and another argument that perhaps the cadet forces should be manned by regs/TA.
But thats a whole other argument :D
 
#11
suits_U said:
Ah comment now understood, and its a fair one.
Although I would tend to argue that once the instructor knows said rambo type cadet is going into the forces, they start to bring them back down to earth and make them realise the regs is a totally different ball game.
Again it is something that, in my eyes, falls back on to the instructors at the unit, and another argument that perhaps the cadet forces should be manned by regs/TA.
But thats a whole other argument
:D
It wouldn't happen because of the fact that the ACF would be difficult justifying its 'youth organisation' status. The Army struggles enough with stupid rules about child soldiers that are based on African nations just employing soldiers under 18, and having places like AFC Harrogate, let alone employing service personnel to run and operate a 'youth organisation'.
 
#13
suits_U said:
Ah comment now understood, and its a fair one.
Although I would tend to argue that once the instructor knows said rambo type cadet is going into the forces, they start to bring them back down to earth and make them realise the regs is a totally different ball game.
Again it is something that, in my eyes, falls back on to the instructors at the unit, and another argument that perhaps the cadet forces should be manned by regs/TA.
But thats a whole other argument :D
I concur,I have on occasions taught Inf Sp wpns interest periods to cadets via the local AYT and apart from the very few AI's who didn't make themselves out to be complete and utter throbbers in front of their cadets by pretending they knew all about the weapon systems for instance stating the 81mm mortar HE round being capable of defeating armour and interjecting whilst I instructed until made to look very silly! I was informed prior to "teaching" not to give details the on beaten zone,the effects of ammunition etc as was my mate who was teaching GPMG (SF) but purely to let the kids get "hands on" and play with the kit,but to also to incorporate some practical learning experience I.E. map reading with a brief outline of tgt Identification.

My point being that the ACF/CCF are "youth" organisations with a military flavour,they are not and will not ever be a school for child soldiers.I may be wrong, but I feel the root of the problem may be the Adult "Instructors" who at best have very little or no military experience themselves or if they do are very outdated and give the kids a very wrong impression of Regular or Reserve Service and what it is all about .
 
#14
Ha ha. Very funny!

Anyway I personally did the cubs and scouts route - although I did go to the local ACF to do my marksman badge. However I learnt a massive amount more about mountaincraft (rather than fieldcraft), knots and mapreading, when compared with local ACF who to be perfectly honest were to busy trying to be mini-rambos. The skills I learnt through the scouts have stood me in good stead for my life in the forces. I have then learnt what the army needs me to learn rather than having to have a load of dodgily taught twonk knocked out of my system before being retaught correctly!
 
#15
I understand your point, I really do.
And my comment about instruction was tongue in cheek because it stirs a lot of emotions for some reason.
I was an ACF instructor myself before I saw the light, and I know for a fact that the problems you are describing is due to unfortunately, poor instructors who think they can run a mini army.
I know it is not like this all over, and there are many fine instructors out there who stick to the ACF manual like glue and do not deviate from it, unless they are introducing interest lessons with the help of suitably qualified staff. These people tend to have the best cadets on the whole.

Lets face it though.
The ACF is an argument in itself, and has been repeated on this site many, many times.
Nothing will ever change, there will always be bad staff rotting the core, same as anywhere really.
We may aswell argue/discuss when the kiddies are getting A2's
 
#16
It's all about how you present it. if you teach Map and Compass, First Aid etc in a pink and fluffy way then the cadets will get bored, demotivated etc. However if you give all your lessons a military theme e.g Map and compass based on a Recce, etc then you will have engaged enthusiastic cadets who aren't usless as soon as you hit the ground on an FTX (and I completely agree FTX is the main reason most cadets and adults join the ACF).

I agree that most instructors are out of date with some info but that is because we can only teach from the Manual which is now 18 years old!

There are rumours about a new manual being delivered soon but I won't hold my breath.


Going back to the origional poster I completely agree. When you join the cadets as an AI you should be prepared to teach and take part in ALL aspects of the training, not just the ones you like. Of course there will be those who naturally lean towards certain subjects and are poorer at others but all SI and above should be able to, and be prepared to, teach ALL APC subject to 2 star Level.

SB
 
#17
Bravo_Zulu said:
Too many instructors are paranoid about being accosted by urban parents asking why their child comes home talking about "section battle drills" and "destroying the enemy". The solution is to get real soldiers (ask around before using the CTT, because it's full of sergeants who are their because they're about to retire or have pissed off the RSM) to teach at first, then let the senior cadets teach the young 'uns. This gets everyone involved; all you need to do is stand and watch, intervene only if necessary and book plenty of training weekends.
You been on the Cadet Training Team then have you??

Ubique
 
#18
ACF.... top organisation! I had many happy times in my few years with the local army cadets before following the well trodden path into the regulars. There were some excellent AIs, many of whom had a vast wealth of experience in the regulars. The cadet training team blokes were brilliant as I remember, and the whole thing was brilliant youth activity, for cracking value! I remember 2 week annual camps with exercises, range packages, march and shoots, adventure training and visits to theme parks etc all for under 20 quid!!!
There were obviously some throbbers....AIs and gob shoit cadets alike, but no more than in any walk of life.
Best bit of advice given to me though, by a mate who joined up before me, was to deny all involvement, knowledge etc of anything cadet related when i joined up for regular basic training!!! Sage advice fella!
 
#20
REMEbrat said:
girth said:
Why do some AIs seem to bang on about not teaching military type subjects. Stating the ACF should concentrate on map reading, first aid and A/T.

For gods sake the kids join the ACF because of the title ARMY! They want to learn about the army, which strangely includes fieldcraft and firing weapons other than air rifles.

There are plenty of other youth organisations out there who cater for non military type activities. Scouts, Guides, ATC etc...

If you dont want to teach mil skills, fieldcraft, shooting etc, GO AND JOIN THE SCOUTS.
I am an instructor with the ATC at Boscombe and we do as much if not more military type activities in green than the local ACF units!
That is either because you have a Parochial point of view (ie: what you do locally, DOES not reflect Corps activities nationally) or you are talking utter bollocks. Wearing DPM on a parade night is not enough.

The ATC is slowly but surely moving away from all semblance of a military youth org. ACP16 fieldcraft manual is a sad sick joke played on the cadets and adults alike. Now even Shooting is in decline in many wings (Some wings have abandoned it altogether)

Even the forthcoming RAF Regt JL camp has just banned the use of blank and pyro, and will have no nitex. Yet a couple of months ago Air Cadet NEWS, the ATC Pravda, had loads of exciting piccies of cadets running around in DPM waving SA80s with BFAs fitted. Utter fraud.

ATC should be rebranded 'Scouts with Gliders' so as to not fall foul of the Trades Descriptions Act, but even the 'air' side is rather thin these days.

At least the ACF does what it says on the tin and offers something unique in terms of basic infantry skills, tactical excercises and Fieldcraftas well as the First Aid, AT, citizenship, D of E, and even the bloody bag packing which any fish and chip youth club can run.
 

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