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Chieftain MBT - "Smokin'"

Wow, still got your hand in then.

BTW you've said Cheiftain twice now....
ok ok, Chieftain and yes, two of them to check over in fac. I think the RBJ is ok in one (I'll get there hopefully this weekend to confirm) but the other one was waterlogged to a few inches for a few years. some basic electrical checks to the drivers compartment and engine compartment are promising but we haven't tried turret electrics or GCE yet. I want to see the RBJ before considering that move. If you are interested in having a look yourself let me know, assuming you are UK based then maybe one/both will be near enough for you, one is Essex and the other Hampshire way.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
45 Medium Regt , we had M110 and M109s... moved from Padders to Hohne , bastards took me with them just so they could **** me about, because I was posted to Berlin in 4 weeks , I then took 2 weeks leave to get the quarter sorted , packed and get Doris and son ready for the move... Berlin Armd Sqn , B sqn RSDG , fine bunch of guys, then C sqn RH

talking about dri-clads , there wasa driclad park at the back of 45 workshops, they were all Cents , UK sold the turrets to Switzerland for them to use mounted onto concrete bases up some mountain afaik
I thought I remembered seeing dry clad Cents in the dry clad park when we (Uncle Tom's FC) used to play at Barker about 78-81.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
As for the L60? Leyland headed the design team and made sure their engine got selected.
I was led to understand that Rolls Royce designed it to a spec, but when asked to go ahead and build it they fúcked them off cos it was a crock. BL were already a crock, so had no inhibitions about building to the RR spec.
 
The problem at the time (sixties) was that there were no large piston engines of the size needed on the open market. The L60 was one of the developments of the Junkers Jumo engine (as was the Deltic), and was a good idea, but was a military special and there was really no equivalent on the civvie market. Trucks of the time were quite small and railway engines were too big.

The traditional source of tank engines used to be the aircraft industry.. the Meteor engine in the Cent and the Antar was a modified Merlin engine. The problem was that aircraft had gone over to gas turbines and jets and nobody was building large vehicle diesel engines until the larger trucks appeared in the eighties..

The other design problem with the Chieftain was the "drop in" engine bay, apparently to meet the amphibious requirement. This meant that doing a pack change on anything but a dead flat surface was "a challenge". Same with the FV43X series. If they had gone for a combined power pack and gear train with back door access things may have been a bit easier and more reliable..
I guess buying big engines off the Septics was unthinkable ?
 
I guess buying big engines off the Septics was unthinkable ?
I'm guessing that back then is was politically unthinkable for the Government of the day, not propping up British jobs and nationalised industries was a no-no, even at the risk of putting lives on the line/risking defeat if it came to war. with the Russkies.
 
Yes, Iran, they eventually got the Shir 1 or Khalid as it was also known. It was a Chieftain with a CV12 engine, it was what Chieftain should have been from the start. They have one at the Tank Museum and it growls with power! As for the L60? Leyland headed the design team and made sure their engine got selected. Had we not ripped up our agreement with Israel and refused to sell them Chieftain who knows what might have happened? Seeing as they put a decent American diesel in Centurion when they got it, I doubt they would have stuck with the L60, Imagine Israel putting US engines in Chieftain even as the British Army was taking deliveries of L60 Chieftains? When it was shown that the Israeli tanks were faster and more reliable than ours, we would have had no choice but to follow suit.
think you got things a bit wrong there the Shir 1 was being developed for Iran, but Ayatollah Khomeini ousted the shah, and there was an immediate embargo on arms sales to Iran , I am not sure (someone on this thread will point us all in the right direction eventually)some may have been in Iran before the trouble... when I was in Berlin , 1980 after the Iran thing kicked off we suddenly were getting long awaited for non priority chieftain spares , in sealed poly bags with "export sales , Iran only" on the labels
the Shir 1 wasn't sent , but most I think eventually went to Jordan,renamed Khalid , as did our Chally 1s when the mk 2s came into service , but that happened well after I'd retired
 
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ok ok, Chieftain and yes, two of them to check over in fac. I think the RBJ is ok in one (I'll get there hopefully this weekend to confirm) but the other one was waterlogged to a few inches for a few years. some basic electrical checks to the drivers compartment and engine compartment are promising but we haven't tried turret electrics or GCE yet. I want to see the RBJ before considering that move. If you are interested in having a look yourself let me know, assuming you are UK based then maybe one/both will be near enough for you, one is Essex and the other Hampshire way.
I`ve only ever done one and that was on a Scorpion in Oman. PoP

My boss did one on a Chiefie in Fally with an ECE but he was a cuunt and kept all the knowledge to himself for some reason?? They were both cuunts as it happens.

Whenever we heard that a pack was about to be lifted we`d rush in and replace the tank telephone cable because it ran between the RBJ and the back end and spent its short life submerged in a mixture of cold war detritus.
 
I`ve only ever done one and that was on a Scorpion in Oman. PoP

My boss did one on a Chiefie in Fally with an ECE but he was a cuunt and kept all the knowledge to himself for some reason?? They were both cuunts as it happens.

Whenever we heard that a pack was about to be lifted we`d rush in and replace the tank telephone cable because it ran between the RBJ and the back end and spent its short life submerged in a mixture of cold war detritus.
it will be cables to the hull, cables to the turret and some mounting bolts I guess. Of course being Chieftain (there, I have got it right twice now :) ) it won't be that any of that will be in the slightest bit accessible and no doubt several hours will be required.

I recall for the Cent the turret floor was disconnected and propped up at an angle to get to the RBJ.

p.s. PM me the two ECEs names, you never know, I might know them and promise that I was not one of them.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
think you got things a bit wrong there the Shir 1 was being developed for Iran, but Ayatollah Khomeini ousted the shah, and there was an immediate embargo on arms sales to Iran , I am not sure (someone on this thread will point us all in the right direction eventually)some may have been in Iran before the trouble... when I was in Berlin , 1980 after the Iran thing kicked off we suddenly were getting long awaited for non priority chieftain spares , in sealed poly bags with "export sales , Iran only" on the labels
the Shir 1 wasn't sent , but most I think eventually went to Jordan,renamed Khalid , as did our Chally 1s when the mk 2s came into service , but that happened well after I'd retired
I think that's about it.

Shah ordered Shir Iran (Lion of Persia) a few built, then heard about Chobham and changed the order. Shir Iran 2. Built, ready to ship, Ayatollah intervened. We detropicalised Shir Iran 2 ➡ Challenger 1.

All the Shir 1s went to Jordan and most of the CR1. One is called Khalid, the other is named the Hussain or similar for Abdullah's father.

I'm sure I read all this somewhere recently. Maybe a Light Dragoons journal. More likely Wikipedia.

Edit. Maybe here. Khalid (Sword) Main Battle Tank - United Kingdom

And here. Al-Hussein
 
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A small anecdotal tale here concerning a Trooper with the 15/19 KRH in Fallingbostel circa 73.

@AlienFTM will probs know more than me. He wasn`t with the Regiment at the time having joined the Regt in 75? in Omagh but folk lore never dies.

A certain trooper was on the ranges at Hohne and managed to get himself shot in the thigh/groin with the .50 ranging machine gun. His nickname was Horace because he resembled a comic character from the 60`s ish.

The story I heard was that the gun had a stoppage and instead of following his 1st/2nd etc IA drills, Horace decided to bypass all the rules and simply bash fook out of the gun resulting in an accidental discharge of the weapon.
I think he was the loader/operator in the tank so he would have been the nearest to the gun as it poked through the turret just in front of where they sat.

Now the fairy tale bit....

The round ricocheted around the turret and eventually lodged itself in his worthless body? Hmm..

Or, it was a glancing flesh wound and soldier on.
 
Late 84, 15/19H left for Bovy. Your CVR(T)s would have been 8* Scimitar, a Close Recce troop, presumably from whoever replaced 15/19H.

I presume your FSCs came as part of the ATGM contingent, cos our Close Recce squadron (A) didn't have any, and all Recce troop leaders took CVR(T)s.
Nope, our CVR(T) were most definitely Scorpions
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
A small anecdotal tale here concerning a Trooper with the 15/19 KRH in Fallingbostel circa 73.

@AlienFTM will probs know more than me. He wasn`t with the Regiment at the time having joined the Regt in 75? in Omagh but folk lore never dies.

A certain trooper was on the ranges at Hohne and managed to get himself shot in the thigh/groin with the .50 ranging machine gun. His nickname was Horace because he resembled a comic character from the 60`s ish.

The story I heard was that the gun had a stoppage and instead of following his 1st/2nd etc IA drills, Horace decided to bypass all the rules and simply bash fook out of the gun resulting in an accidental discharge of the weapon.
I think he was the loader/operator in the tank so he would have been the nearest to the gun as it poked through the turret just in front of where they sat.

Now the fairy tale bit....

The round ricocheted around the turret and eventually lodged itself in his worthless body? Hmm..

Or, it was a glancing flesh wound and soldier on.
Nope. Never heard that. But I DO vaguely recall Horace!
 
Warwick County Fire Brigade had them in their trucks and had no end of overheating and blow ups. After extensive investigation the problem was found to be... overheating. No end of cooling system upgrades cured it, the cause was down to the truck fitting did not have the direct airflow over the block that was present in the car installations.
Thats a design error on the part of the coachbuilder, not an engine fault.

As an asides I once had a problem with a V12 Jaguar boiling the coolant after you switched off the engine. I may or may not have thrashed it quite hard on occasion.

Cause was heat not disapating once the cooling fans weren't running.]Solution was to put a thermostat controller in the electric fan circuit. Electric fans ran until the heat disapated. Worked a treat
 
Late 84, 15/19H left for Bovy. Your CVR(T)s would have been 8* Scimitar, a Close Recce troop, presumably from whoever replaced 15/19H.

I presume your FSCs came as part of the ATGM contingent, cos our Close Recce squadron (A) didn't have any, and all Recce troop leaders took CVR(T)s.
In 84 the Armd Regts got their GW and Close Recce Tp back from the RA and the Armd Recce Regts, along with BATCO and a new callsign system!
 
A small anecdotal tale here concerning a Trooper with the 15/19 KRH in Fallingbostel circa 73.

@AlienFTM will probs know more than me. He wasn`t with the Regiment at the time having joined the Regt in 75? in Omagh but folk lore never dies.

A certain trooper was on the ranges at Hohne and managed to get himself shot in the thigh/groin with the .50 ranging machine gun. His nickname was Horace because he resembled a comic character from the 60`s ish.

The story I heard was that the gun had a stoppage and instead of following his 1st/2nd etc IA drills, Horace decided to bypass all the rules and simply bash fook out of the gun resulting in an accidental discharge of the weapon.
I think he was the loader/operator in the tank so he would have been the nearest to the gun as it poked through the turret just in front of where they sat.

Now the fairy tale bit....

The round ricocheted around the turret and eventually lodged itself in his worthless body? Hmm..

Or, it was a glancing flesh wound and soldier on.
Now that would have taken some doing! Removing the .50 RG was no mean feat, in fact we used to leave the body and barrel fitted only the working parts were removed and held in the armoury! Could have been the coax mind or he was a driver and climbed out of his cab thinking all was clear and ended up being hit then!
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
In 84 the Armd Regts got their GW and Close Recce Tp back from the RA and the Armd Recce Regts, along with BATCO and a new callsign system!
Pretty sure I was using Batco on the Div Log Net in 83, following the VP rewrite released 1 July 82, seeing all the Control Signallers retrained as I was transferring out.

EDIT. And callsign system. Same DCI that announced that midnight existed as 0000 hrs on the latter day.
 
I was led to understand that Rolls Royce designed it to a spec, but when asked to go ahead and build it they fúcked them off cos it was a crock. BL were already a crock, so had no inhibitions about building to the RR spec.
Reading a book on Chieftain a couple of years ago it stated that once the prototype trials were successfully completed in USA the team came back with their findings, which recommended the RR engine. Then the MoD suits got involved and to reduce the cost it went to Leyland.
 
Warwick County Fire Brigade had them in their trucks and had no end of overheating and blow ups. After extensive investigation the problem was found to be... overheating. No end of cooling system upgrades cured it, the cause was down to the truck fitting did not have the direct airflow over the block that was present in the car installations.
Here's one of said Warwick County's Jaguar Bedford TKs - a real beast - taken in 1981
Jag BedfordTK003.jpg
Bedford TKs
 

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