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Chechen Terrorists Infiltrate Arizona?

#1
From the Washington Times:

"US security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico in July.

"The Chechen group is suspected of having links to Islamist terrorists seeking to separate the southern enclave of Chechnya from Russia, according to officials familiar with intelligence reports.

"Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona that is difficult for US border security agents to monitor, said officials speaking on the condition of anonymity."

"Chechen Terrorists Probed" by Bill Gertz.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041013-121643-5028r.htm
 
#2
Oh good grief :roll:
 
#4
Did you guys read the same article as me? It was a report, reporting information which he received, nothing more nothing less.

It reported information with no bias; so why the cynicism in the responses?

Or is it the attitude that anything reported in the US press is shyte, but the British press is without?

Morgan Morgan Morgan....{clear throat} Piers 8O

IMHO Bill Gertz is probably one of the better reports the US Media has.
 
#5
"Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona that is difficult for US border security agents to monitor, said officials speaking on the condition of anonymity."
Best make sure there aren't any Chechen U-Boats coming up the Rio Grande :D :D

Read the quote again Ctauch , surely you can see the glaring anomaly straight away?

I think your story may well have originated with these people

http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/index.html

Probably a nice bunch of well meaning people , but they do make me kinda nervous 8O


 
#7
Birdie_Numnums said:
Talk about seeing shadows everywhere.

USA land of the free and the paranoid.
I was in the USA last week, talk about paranoid homeland security
"Sir you've been to Iran, why did you go there?"
"To work"
"Why are you visiting the USA"
"To waste some hoilday time talking to a dick like you"

Blokey with gun and lots of rubber stamps wanders off for 20 mins bringing back man with tie and shades. Lots of thumbing through passport and the like....nodoubt I picked up a FIB tail, following me around disneyworld........
 
#8
ctauch said:
Did you guys read the same article as me? It was a report, reporting information which he received, nothing more nothing less.

It reported information with no bias; so why the cynicism in the responses?

Or is it the attitude that anything reported in the US press is shyte, but the British press is without?

Morgan Morgan Morgan....{clear throat} Piers 8O

IMHO Bill Gertz is probably one of the better reports the US Media has.
Ctauch,

since 9/11, US security has increased and with due reason. What we are getting at is that the US now views EVERYBODY as potential threat, even us so-called allies. It does grate us slightly to be treated as such by a country we have stood by with, when the rest of the EU shrugged their shoulders.

Security is not a dirty word but security bordering on Paranoia is.[/i]
 
#9
dui-lai said:
Security is not a dirty word but security bordering on Paranoia is.[/i]
although it is totally fuelled by the Bush administration who are constantly saying that theyve had confirmed intelligence (WMD confirmed?) that an attack is imminent, check out CNN and Fox on satallite tv, always says that the threat level is 'elevated', keep the people paranoid, nice tactic :roll:
 
#10
ctauch said:
Did you guys read the same article as me? It was a report, reporting information which he received, nothing more nothing less.

It reported information with no bias; so why the cynicism in the responses?

Or is it the attitude that anything reported in the US press is shyte, but the British press is without?

Morgan Morgan Morgan....{clear throat} Piers 8O

IMHO Bill Gertz is probably one of the better reports the US Media has.
Bill Gertz sometimes gives the impression of being in thrall to his own sources within the Pentagon and the current US Administration. His published books have titles like "Betrayal : How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security". Following the extremely serious allegation that the administration had compromised the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame, as part of the 'spin wars' over Iraq, it was Mr Gertz who broke a story conveniently claiming that Plame's identity had already been accidentally compromised. This case could still see members of the present Administration going to prison.
 
#13
dui-lai said:
It does grate us slightly to be treated as such by a country we have stood by with, when the rest of the EU shrugged their shoulders.

Security is not a dirty word but security bordering on Paranoia is.
That's a fair criticism. The people we need to be focused on are not of Anglo-Saxon descent.
 
#14
PartTimePongo said:
"Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona that is difficult for US border security agents to monitor, said officials speaking on the condition of anonymity."
Best make sure there aren't any Chechen U-Boats coming up the Rio Grande :D :D

Read the quote again Ctauch , surely you can see the glaring anomaly straight away?
Done and can't. The border between the US and Mexico has been a problem for years...hundreds in not thousands of illegals flow across it daily. Some are caught immediately, some die in the desert, and others make it [in the sense they are not caught immediately or die in the desert]. It is not a stretch to think that if a group of terrorists wanted to enter the country the Mexico border would do. If you are well prepared and with the right training survival in the AZ desert is possible, and hiding there is easy.

dui-lai said:
Security is not a dirty word but security bordering on Paranoia is.
I'll give you this: there is a fine line between vigilant and paranoid. :roll:
 
#15
Ctauch, does this report not create rather a problem for those of your country's Neocons who have been taking the Chechen separatists' side against the Russian Government?

It is all too painful to imagine the following fine individuals wearing the orange jumpsuits at Gitmo:

Richard Perle, the notorious Pentagon adviser; Elliott Abrams of Iran-Contra fame; Kenneth Adelman, the former US ambassador to the UN who egged on the invasion of Iraq by predicting it would be "a cakewalk"; Midge Decter, biographer of Donald Rumsfeld and a director of the rightwing Heritage Foundation; Frank Gaffney of the militarist Centre for Security Policy; Bruce Jackson, former US military intelligence officer and one-time vice-president of Lockheed Martin, now president of the US Committee on Nato; Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a former admirer of Italian fascism and now a leading proponent of regime change in Iran; and R James Woolsey, the former CIA director who is one of the leading cheerleaders behind George Bush's plans to re-model the Muslim world along pro-US lines.
quote taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1299318,00.html

another story at http://www.sundayherald.com/44741
 
#16
hackle,

what's your point exactly? I see your quoting the Guardian, that oh so well balanced and unbias newspaper! the paper that seems to think that when "Neocons" are supporting Chechens (news to most people i imagine) this is a conspiracy, but when Vanesa Redgrave supports Chechans, its standing up for the little misunderstood ethnic freedom fighter.

hackle said:
Ctauch, does this report not create rather a problem for those of your country's Neocons who have been taking the Chechen separatists' side against the Russian Government?

It is all too painful to imagine the following fine individuals wearing the orange jumpsuits at Gitmo:

Richard Perle, the notorious Pentagon adviser; Elliott Abrams of Iran-Contra fame; Kenneth Adelman, the former US ambassador to the UN who egged on the invasion of Iraq by predicting it would be "a cakewalk"; Midge Decter, biographer of Donald Rumsfeld and a director of the rightwing Heritage Foundation; Frank Gaffney of the militarist Centre for Security Policy; Bruce Jackson, former US military intelligence officer and one-time vice-president of Lockheed Martin, now president of the US Committee on Nato; Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a former admirer of Italian fascism and now a leading proponent of regime change in Iran; and R James Woolsey, the former CIA director who is one of the leading cheerleaders behind George Bush's plans to re-model the Muslim world along pro-US lines.
quote taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1299318,00.html

another story at http://www.sundayherald.com/44741
I also find it amusing that for the Guardian, a supportor of regime change in Iran (who "horror" use to admire italian fascism) is obviously just crazy man! This from the newspaper who has yet to apologies for its cheerleading, admiring, supporter, excusing Soviet Dictatorships.

but hey, lets not dwell on the past eh!
 
#17
I don't read it as they support the terrorists, I read it as there is a historical yearning that Chechnya be is seperate nation and out from under the control of the Russian central government.

Quick history:
Chechnya declared independence in 1993, and as such was invaded, a number of times, by Yelstin, to over throw Dudayev. These attempts failed and resulted in an expansion of the "civil war", this expansion created a vacuum filled by rebels and yes terrorists.

Russia's actions to bring Chechnya back in to the fold for the following reasons First, access routes to both the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea go from the center of Russia through Chechnya, and second, vital Russian oil and gas pipeline connections with Kazakstan and Azerbaijan run through Chechnya.

Since the fall of the USSR may former "ethnic enclaves" have sought and been granted independence from the "central government". Chechnya would be a economic wound that Russia can not afford, and as such they are not wanting to let it go.

So what leads you to believe that an explaination of the Chechnya Russian conflict means that these people "support" the Chechen seperatists? I don't get your point?
 
#18
Plastic Yank:

Noted. My point was about American Neocons being accused of acting as apologists for Chechen terrorism.

Personally I cannot say whether the accusations are fair, but I would be inclined to distrust any lobby organisation which includes the likes of Richard Perle.

As to your criticisms of the Guardian, not my favourite rag either, but note their v positive story today about TA in Iraq. I also included a link to the Sunday Herald - not the most left-wing of newspapers. Try a google on "Neocons Chechnya" and you will find plenty more versions of the same story.

In all fairness to these people AND to the Grauniad, here is a link to their own site from which you will see that they themselves had no qualms about giving a link to that newspaper: http://www.peaceinchechnya.org/

Ctauch's comments also noted thanks, I still don't trust any lobby organisation involving the likes of Mr Perle.
 
#19
hackle,

fair point and would agree with the Richard Perle thang, even if i would consider myself leaning towards to the Neocon position.

my views on Chechens unfortunately are unprintable, as i think as a nation, they are scum sucking maggots, that should roast in hell, but i've got reasons for being bigoted (not that that excuses it, of course - just admitting my short-comings).
 
#20
hackle said:
I still don't trust any lobby organisation involving the likes of Mr Perle.
That is a seperate discussion and one we made find ourselves on the side. 8O
 

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