Cheap Ammunition Put Lives at Risk

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Gracchus, Nov 23, 2006.

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    Didn't we learn a lesson many moons ago from the Indian 9mm ammunition fiasco? Clearly not.

    Maybe there's more to this than the Torygraph reports, but it does sound like another procurement Just In Time cock-up.
  2. Saving money on procurement is one thing, but if the product bought is not fit for roll what saving is there? None.

    Put the procurement manager's on the front line with 'duff' kit and see if they are then happy with 'cheap'!
  3. looking at that video there sure was 'ploblems'
  4. Can we have a link to the video?
  5. If any cnuts from the MoD are reading this, I hope that on your way home tonight you are run over by a bus.

    This is a clear case of the MoD buying shite ammo. It happened to me back in '93 (caused a couple of breach explosions) and the MoD claimed it was poor weapon handling skills that caused it and not a crap batch of 5.56. It was b0llocks then and is b0llocks now.

    Do the idiots that inhabit the MoD not realise that when the party faithful spokesman trots out the official line "There are no current problems with this ammunition", this little piece of sophistry (using clever language to make a legally true statement that 99% of normal people would view as a lie) just costs them any credibility they have left?
  6. well done that para for not throwing the .5 down in a rage and storming off! I got threaders just watching that clip.
  7. I did enjoy the music playing in the background as the contact was going on!!! :D
  8. Taken from the Telegraph article:
    WHY? Is the Paras word not good enough?
  9. diplomat

    diplomat War Hero Book Reviewer

    It may get worse, as various Western Goverments are trawling the old stockpiles of ammunition in the Balkans and Eastern Europe to send to the new security frces of Afghanistan and Iraq. I am not sure I would want to trust my life to that ammunition!

    Make sure you don't get sent any by mistake!!!
  10. Cyprus 1958, Cpl LW put 4 rounds into the back of a fleeing gunman at a range of 30 yards using a .38 S&W pistol. Knocked the bugger down but on examination it was seen that not one single round had penetrated his coat. Ammo came out of a box printed "For RN use only- April 1941".
  11. Sounds about right for .38 IIZ... always was a crappy round!

    A heavy greatcoat as worn in the 50s is a fair approximation of a flak jacket, so I'm not surprised the bullets did not penetrate, particularly if the coat was wet and loose! Knocked him over though.... :D

    Ammo was only 17 years old and went bang did'nt it. Woja moaning about..? Don't see the relevence of the RN bit..

    That said, it looks like there is an issue with the Paras that needs sorting.... however don't always blame the ammo. The M2 is usually pretty indifferent to what you feed it provided you get the headspace right and balance the gun. 50 cal ammo is probably made by more manufacturers than any other caliber, but the quality is highly variable...

    Kynock used to make the .50 for UK use, but they are no longer in existence, so everthing is bought on the spot market!

    Edited to add - The Telegraph is talking bollix about Dushka 12.7 ammo. Yes, it's about the same diameter, but the case is completely different. You can't feed Dushka ammo through an M2. (just like you can't feed 7.62x 39 AK ammo through an SLR!)
  12. Kynoch is still in operation, based in Suffolk, but I believe it only makes big-game hunting ammunition.
  13. the brit army .50s are in 'improvment' over the M2 by having fixed headspace,
    on the M2 i was forever removing seperated cases stuck in chambers because idiots couldnt use the headspace gauges,
  14. In the early eighties there was a problem with ammunition bought from India. The regiment which trained me in Catterick had an incident where a bloke had several stoppages in a row where the round didn't clear the barrel, they cut the SMG in half and displayed it