Charity run in uniform not allowed!!

Discussion in 'Charities and Welfare' started by spad, May 26, 2010.

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  1. I am doing a 10k Bergan run this Sunday in full kit, for help for heroes
    at an orginised event,

    but the AO has just told me we can’t do it for charity or in kit,

    We were also meant to be doing a 50k sponsored row next to the town hall on AFD but now I have just been told we can’t do that for charity as well. But since its AFD we can wear uniform,

    2 questions

    1: Has anyone else come across these problems?

    2: what’s the point in doing a 50k row in the middle of town for AFD when there no charity involved, I've got things to give my day up for then just a row for shits and giggles and possible girls numbers!
  2. It's all to do with savings. If charities want you there, they have to pay the costs - your pay, travel etc just like any company who hired outside help would. It's going to get worse and the charities will suffer.

    Edited to add that all the information can be found in the MOD policy and guidance on Charities (JSP 462, JSP 800 & JSP 368).
  3. Tell them that you're a raving faggot and that you're raising cash for "re-stitch my" and for hermer-pride, and you'll be fine.
  4. Actually sounds like complete nonsense..............

    No one has said the military cannot do charity work anymore (or wear uniform when doing it) what may be a problem is the PME??
  5. thanks for the jsp,

    but as I said to the AO were doing it off our own back in our own time and to no cost to the MOD, well apart from slightly less rubber on our boots and some more wear and tear on our kit :roll:

    but they can sod off if they think ill be doing a 50k row for feck all, I'll have friends that will see me in town and we be more than happy come take the piss!
  6. I might copy and paste that to the AO just to see what he says and then to see if he needs a new keyboard and screen :D
  7. Pissed myself at that!

    Please let us know the result, :lol: :lol: :lol:
  8. I did see a newish notice last night referring to an AGAI that soldiers should not partake in charity fundraising or other such activities in uniform unless sanctioned from at least brigade level. Or words to that effect.

    On the other hand, do you have a t-shirt privately purchased from the PRI, a pair of no-longer issued jungle trousers and some non-issued boots? If so that may surely be enough to distinguish yourself from a solider on officially sanctioned charitable activity. Although it may of course leave you open to accusations of the "w" word.
  9. But, you can go to Gay Pride in Uniform with all expenses paid??????
  10. were going ahead any way just with black tape across our eyes, :D

    to be a big time "W" then :D

    the only problem i can forsee is when people ask where are you guys from....... now i could lie, but I wouldn't want another unit taking our thunder... or boll0cking :D

    may be army gay pride T-Shirts and no one will question us about it :D
  11. Oh dear
    I don’t think the AO found it funny when I suggested he sent that up to brigade HQ to have it authorised
    I don’t think my 15:00hrs meeting with him will have any biscuits woops :D
    thanks smudge! mutter mutter should know better then to repeat stuff from the interenet :)
  12. I realise we are a little different as cadets but we run into the same problem with PME whenever we attempt to have any sort of event and the pay etc doesn't come into it.

    Recently tried to help the local SSAFA branch get a bag pack in a local supermarket off the ground the thing that stopped it in its tracks was the PME being knocked back by Brigade

    Has anyone any insight as to why this should be and how it can be mitigated.
  13. Blobmeister,

    The document I saw specifically raised chartiable fundraising in uniform. It mentioned and I am paraphrasing greatly here because I only skim read it but that soldiers collecting money in uniform relied on the goodwill of the public for donations for events that the Army as an institution may not support.

    I know of units bag packing for AT trips, for example. The argument being, this may be a problem as a member of the public may hand over money thinking it is going to help someone at Selly Oak rather than for the OTC to go skiing. This may make them less likely to give to recognised charities (having already given) or erode their trust in the forces by seeing them as self-serving.

    Heavy handed, possible but I can understand the idea behind it.
  14. yeah very heavy handy!! if gob shites want to be self serving like that then dicipline them not the charitys!!
    clear guide lines on how much notice about what the sponsorship is about,

    but any way where does RBL stand on Nov 11? are we not to wear poppys any more?
  15. Long read but this is the published guidelines:


    The following are the extracts from the MOD policy and guidance on Charities (JSP 462, JSP 800 & JSP 368).

    JSP 462 Financial Management Policy Manual
    Chapter 19: Sound Governance: Regularity and Propriety in Public Expenditure

    Introduction. This chapter illustrates what is, and what is not, proper behaviour in the management of public funds, and provides guidance on distinguishing these from non-public funds. This guidance is in line with Managing Public Money (MPM), a Treasury publication which sets out the rules for managing and controlling public expenditure and is the ultimate reference manual for finance staff. In controlling public expenditure there are two main requirements to follow in terms of Regularity and Propriety – definitions can be found under Key Points section.

    Key Points
    4. Personal implications of failing to observe Regularity and Propriety:
    a. Failure to observe financial regularity and propriety constitutes an abuse of financial authority. History shows that the prime cause of abuse of financial authority cases is the absence of proper control or failure to observe existing controls. Those best placed to detect and deter incidents are those directly involved in an activity at risk. That is why the prime responsibility for establishing controls to deter and detect fraud and theft and for reporting suspicions rests with line management at all levels.
    b. PUS is personally responsible to Parliament for ensuring that MOD has sound controls in place. Accordingly, PUS is notified of the number of “abuse of financial authority” cases as part of the annual Health of Financial Systems exercise.
    c. All staff should be aware that such abuse can lead to disciplinary action being taken against the individual or individuals involved, even where there is no personal gain.

    Donations by MOD to External Bodies
    2. Public money is intended only for public sector uses, and for the purposes for which money is voted by Parliament. The financial delegations granted to departments by the Treasury on behalf of Parliament do not allow for any exceptions to this ruling. So MOD only has authority to expend money on delivering its normal business.
    3. MOD can contribute funding to external bodies through grant or grant-in-aid (see JSP 462 under Transactions Chapter 8) where there is a specific and quantifiable benefit to the Department, i.e. where it contributes to the Department’s objectives, but it cannot subsidise any non-public organisation on purely charitable grounds. This would turn public money into non-public and amount to irregular expenditure. All charities, including those with MOD or Armed Service connections, should be treated as non-public bodies for funding purposes and charging purposes. The generalised and unquantifiable benefits of individual units supporting charities are not sufficient justification for any divergence from normal financial regulations.
    4. It is common practice for Service personnel to take on duties ancillary to their main function. These may include, for example, roles in connection with non-publicly funded activities that contribute to unit welfare, such as regimental associations and sports clubs. Commanding Officers and unit budget managers must ensure that the necessary controls are put in place to manage these activities to minimise the risk to public funds and to recognise and deal with any potential conflicts of interest or loyalty that might arise. Further guidance can be found in JSP 770 Tri-Service Operational and Non-Operational Welfare Policy and DIN 2009 01-133.
    5. Under no circumstances should MOD provide cash (or cash in kind) to any charity except where it is provided by grant or grant-in-aid. Members of staff (both Service and Civilian) who wish to support a charity should do so in their own time using their own resources. Public money must not be used for private benefit no matter how worthy the cause.

    Charging for MOD Services
    12. The only basis on which it is permissible for MOD to make assets or services available for purely private and charitable purposes is if the Department is reimbursed an appropriate charge (see JSP 368). This applies equally to the use of Service manpower and to the provision of equipment or facilities. A failure to charge or to charge less than appropriate rate equates to a decision to spend public money. 2nd PUS has directed that the SFO in each TLB is responsible for approving the participation of Service personnel or Service assets in charity events and deciding on the charging regime to be applied. Where Tri-Service participation is requested, a lead TLB/SFO will be nominated.

    Accounting Arrangements
    13. It is not good financial practice to mix public and non-public funds. Accordingly, MOD banking facilities should not be used to administer non-public funds except on a repayment basis. In all circumstances, there must be a clear separation between public and non-public funds. Similarly, MOD should not assume any insurance liability in respect of non-public activities. Guidance on the principles and practice of raising charges is given in JSP 368, which takes precedence over any other publication or guidance on this subject.

    JSP 800 Defence Movements and Transport Regulations
    Volume 5 Road Transport
    Part 2 Chapter 2

    Charity Events
    2.2.101 Charity Events. To avoid criticism for the improper use of public funds and for favouring one charity over another, it is MOD policy not to support charities or charitable events without recovering costs (JSP 368). In exceptional circumstances, where the marginal costs are nil and the event can be justified as in the wider interest of the MOD, consideration may be given to the use of MOD vehicles for charity events on a case-by case basis. Prior permission must be sought from TLB / FLC and Fin Pol (see non-public & charity template). Vehicle hire is not permitted.

    Introduced at (Pt 2 Ch 2 Non-Public Funded Events)
    1. In exceptional circumstances units may apply to their TLB/FLC HQ for authority to use MOD road transport for charity, non-public funded events and commercial displays. Events will not be authorised if they contradict any other MOD regulations. The procedure and content of the application process is detailed below:

    Unit Procedure
    2. A concise business case is to be submitted to the TLB/FLC HQ Tpt Staffs to include the following:
    a. Unit Contact details & Sponsor of request.
    b. Details of Event being proposed (Date and location).
    c. Why the event is in the wider interest of the MOD i.e. why should the MOD support the event (media involvement, local interest etc.).
    d. Number and types of vehicle to be used (Green Fleet or White Fleet). The hiring of vehicles (including backfill of pool cars) is not permitted.
    e. Estimated distance to be travelled (miles).
    f. Financial Objective (see JSP 368).

    TLB/FLC HQ Tpt Staffs Procedure
    3. TLB/FLC HQ Tpt Staffs are to action the application as follows:
    a. Check that the application does not contradict current regulations on duty travel. If it does not, FLC/TLB tpt staffs decide to support/not support the application. If not supported, the application should be returned to the unit.
    b. If supported: Tpt staffs pass to Fin Dept for financial approval & Cmd Sec dept to ensure it complies with MOD regularity and propriety rules. If not supported, the application should be returned to the unit.
    c. If supported: Fin Dept, Cmd Sec and tpt staffs should add any recovery payment (green fleet only) costs, if required, or any caveats on the proposal.
    d. Inform unit of TLB/FLC HQ decision and any further action required prior to event.
    e. Pass information of the event to DMTP who will keep a central MOD record of authority given.

    Chapter 3 Charging Policy

    3.29 There are no special arrangements for the treatment of charities, whether Service or other. MoD must avoid criticism for the improper use of publicly funded assets – and for the favouring of one charity over another, which is a possibility unless an entirely consistent policy is applied. The fact that charities are to be the main beneficiary of a good or service (or of a military event) is therefore not sufficient justification to introduce a special charging regime or to set charges aside.

    Annex 4.3 Engagement in Organised Activities By Service Personnel

    20. There are many activities which are undertaken in support of local, national and Service charities. While charities represent worthy causes, they are not subject to special charging arrangements and should be treated in the same way as any other external organisations. The Department cannot
    subsidise charities simply because they have an MOD or Armed Forces connection, and it is important that the Department is not seen to be raising expectations that no charges will be levied. Moreover, the Department must not be seen to be treating one charity more favourably than another.

    Impartiality, Conflict of Interest, Fraud and Corruption
    21. Requests for the participation of service personnel in events by external organisations must be viewed objectively. The Department must be careful not to favour an event where there is personal interest or gain. Particularly, the case for engaging in an event should not be exaggerated in
    order to gain support when in reality the main beneficiary is the external body rather than defence. Careful judgement must be exercised to ensure that the case for supporting an event organised by an external body is a balanced one.
    22. Support to an event organised by an external body should be given only where it is deemed to be in the defence interest and not due to exertion of an individual Crown Servant who may have a close association with the external body (e.g. personal interest, private membership or association with
    the organisation). The acceptance of ‘considerations’ by Crown Servants, e.g. in return for favourable terms in setting up an event or hospitality could lead to accusations of conflicts of interest, fraud or corruption. It is important that any association with an external organisation (member of the board, private interests, hospitality etc) is declared by any Crown Servants involved from the outset.
    23. In the first instance advice from local corporate governance team should be sought for the Gifts, Rewards and Hospitality Annex which addresses conflict of interest, fraud and corruption.

    Annex 4.5 Transport
    11. Requests from charities for air transport in connection with assistance to overseas countries should be directed in the first instance to the Department for International Development (DfID), which may be funded to pay for such assistance or may be prepared to sponsor it on behalf of the UK Government. Should such a request be denied by DfID and the MoD still be approached, the fact that the customer is a charity is not a valid reason to reduce charges below full cost.