channel 4 news tonight

#4
I dont see what the problem is.... after all they have stated nothing more than the truth. Which is magnificently at odd's to Mr Hoons public statements and dare I say it and making references to Sgt Roberts tapes our own esteemed 'Prince of Darkness'. Anyway those of us who were there know the fact's anyway. :D
 

Ventress

LE
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#5
Letterwritingman said:
I dont see what the problem is.... after all they have stated nothing more than the truth. Which is magnificently at odd's to Mr Hoons public statements and dare I say it and making references to Sgt Roberts tapes our own esteemed 'Prince of Darkness'. Anyway those of us who were there know the fact's anyway. :D
Indeed we do.
 
#6
the sgt roberts thing is the public consumption the AMS may be in a whole world of pain shortly.

and if they are TA what difference does it make? except to fuel the ego of regulars who are stupid enough to put up with being put in danger when there is no need. I would say yep the army act and the offical secrets act will be applied but for what purpose?

not for national security. I think more likley to cover up the embarassment of senior officers and politicians who if they had any honor would hold up their hands and resign. For the cock up that was the out load to tellic.
Nursing has seen this more times than enough the cover up of shoddy practice to protect people who aren't up to the job. well someone has applied what is called whistle blowing in the NHS to the army and about bloody time.
 
#7
Nurse,
Having read the Channel 4 link I can see only 2 e-mails that can be attributed to the AMS. I dont think the AMS has anything more to worry about than the RLC. Hoon was, and still, is top dog of the cluster generally known as the MoD and as such were he an honourable man he would resign; however he has to hang on for 2 weeks to save his boss'es arsse.
 
#9
I've just read again the Channel 4 site and the link provided by nurse. It would appear that not only was the AMS short of body armour it also did not have some extremely important peices of medical kit. Is it also true that some RLC wallah wanted to take a refrigerated ISO off of one of the medical units even though it was storing blood? 8O
 
#10
QMan9193 said:
Be nice to know how many of those who have given information to the Press are TA.
So what if they where STABs?

Dead is dead is dead you numpty. If it takes the TA to gob off about duff kit because the Regs are too worried about a cack Confidential, then thank fcuk for TA Gobshites.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#11
Bravo_Bravo said:
QMan9193 said:
Be nice to know how many of those who have given information to the Press are TA.
So what if they where STABs?

Dead is dead is dead you numpty. If it takes the TA to gob off about duff kit because the Regs are too worried about a cack Confidential, then thank fcuk for TA Gobshites.
Maybe its the old Regular in me, who has seen the Army do a superb job with the tools the MoD manderins given us. Didnt see too many complaints during NI, GW1, Kosovo or Bosnia. (All done with limited TA involvement- up to now)

But I agree a soldier has lost his life needlessly and Hoon or someone needs to have the moral courage to say 'I am in charge and we got it wrong.' It shouldn't take a Press witch hunt to drive these people from Office.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#12
nurse said:
Nursing has seen this more times than enough the cover up of shoddy practice to protect people who aren't up to the job. well someone has applied what is called whistle blowing in the NHS to the army and about bloody time.
Another top trait from Civvy Sreett finds it way into the Army. We can add it to IiP, H&S, lack of loyalty, individuality, lack of respect...........ad nauseaum.
 
#13
Bravo has a very good point QMAn ....not that you're a numpty (although the jury's still out on that one), but that if it does take somebody in the TA, who has no 'career ties' to prevent them from speaking out, then so be it and I for one support them (don't go choking on your tea now PtP).

There's a lot of talk inside theArmy, but there are those won't allow moral courage to stand in the way of their careers. Even when some bugger does complain, who really listens to the Regular Army? Most of the civvies we meet, haven't the faintest idea about the Army. I feel that the public are more inclined to believe what is said by a TA soldier. I've nothing to substantiate this mind you, other than the TA live and work amongst the community and family, freinds and work colleagues will believe what they say. They are regularly in contact with civvies. We may be, but not to the volume that they are.

As has been said.....they don't have to worry about 'careers'. We do. It's our only source of income, the higher you go the more you earn. The better standard of living your wife and kids have. You're not doing it for free. You put yourself through 'sh*te and onions' to get there. You do every course you can. You choke at having to do as some fckuwit officer tells you and get on with it and as you have pointed out.......even without the tools, we get the job done.

There is a difference between TA and Regular soldiers.

They are less inclined to suffer fools and more inlcined to do something about it. If their officers are more concerned about their 'percieved career', the Toms can do something about it.........and vote with their feet.

Isn't it a shame though that we appear to have all turned on each other, when the common enemy is this Government.
 
#14
yep standard of any govt divide and rule.
Unfortunatley though Death is an equal opportunities employer.

Having had the last 18months along side the regular army understand exactley were they stand. For alot its next step up the ladder and there are loads ready to stab you in the back to prevent it(hmmm sounds just like nursing).
Q yes the army has muddled through early Bosnia, N.I, Falklands etc with the minimum of kit provided grudgingly by the civil service but is that Right?
And BTW i'm sure the TA would have gone had they been asked I was one of many RA volunteers who put their names forward to go to Bosnia when HQRA was looking for driver sigs.
One of the major reasons the army is in the state its in is because the civil service and politicians have for to long goten away with trying to provide defence on the cheap. And forgetting they have a duty of care to every serviceman and woman.
The attitude they have goten away with for to long is 'You're only a soldier so you don't matter'. And If you don't feel valued its a reason to walk. Q respect and loyality are two way streets and I would sugest that the regular army has had very little of either from the top down but loads from the bottom up.
Yep IIp is a load of kakh they'll be bringing in charter marks soon no doubt.
The Sgt Roberts thing to my reading is a Huge breech of the health and safety at work act. The problem with the army is it has applied guidelines as if they are written in tablets of stone. H&S if applied well can be an extsion of common sense yes there are rules and regulations but they are there to protect you.
TA will now be a fact of life and they will bump their gums just like their regular equivilent it is a soldiers right to complain. And many of them will put up with things they cannot change but will try to change the things they can. Remember the adage they tell you in training 'any fool can be uncomfortable' .
Ask yourself the question. With the Job I am doing and the risks I am being asked to take should I and my comrades have to make do with second best?

Most civilians think the army has the best of everything and its comming as a nasty shock to find they don't.
 
#15
Let us just be thankful that there wasnt an NBC strike carried out during TELIC as the lack of NBC Kit was much greater than the lack of any other kit.

Can you imagine the losses due to incorrectly fitted or tested Respirators.

or due to the lack of suites ????????

The mind boggles at how often British Troops Regular and TA alike find themselves in extremely dangerous situations with woefully inadequate equipment.

But sadly as QMan quite rightly pointed out WE make it work and the powers that be cover up the areas that dont!
 
#16
Right then, I have a few points to make here so please bear with me. Apologies for some that are repeated from previous threads.

a. Sgt Roberts. A tragic death. Whilst I agree that kit did not reach troops in time, despite being in theatre, I would like to temper the debate regarding this soldier. I believe he didn't have the correct CBA. I believe he died as a result of gunshot wound. I have not seen proof, however, that wearing CBA would have saved his life. I know what the armchair speculators say........those that weren't there....and I know what was going on at the time because I WAS there. Let's wait for the facts before jumping onto the media bandwagon.

b. Amputation. Again - I have already witnessed a lot of hype about the allegation that vascular kits were not available. Whilst I do not claim to know all the details I DO know that, once again, the issue is being exploited by the media without all the facts being known. Medical Logistics is seen by many as a black art and there are many erroneous claims made about it. Again - wait for the facts not the rumours.

c. Speaking Out. I am a Regular but this does not stop me speaking out about things I know. But I will NOT speak out to the media. Not because I am afraid of my career, as I am fortunate enough to have an alternative one should I need/want to leave the Forces, but because I dont trust them. I am heartily sick of misreporting, hearsay and speculation without any comprehension (or care) of the damage it may cause. I am sure there are some conscientious journalists out there - but my own experiences have all been negative. So - who do I speak to? The Bosses - and I have seen my comments (and those of others) taken to the top of the medical world. I have not (as yet) had any retribution for making my opinions known and in fact have been encouraged to tell it as it is - but that is because I am known to stick to fact.

I do think I get a better response by the individual approach. Commments made in PXRs, PORs etc all get diluted in the big picture and this may be why people feel their voices are not being heard. I suspect the way forward is to encourage people to tell the right PowersThatBe the truth by ensuring that they are not career fouled by being honest. I DON'T believe that using the media is the best option.

Right. Jumped great height off soapbox.
 
#17
New Q said:
Let us just be thankful that there wasnt an NBC strike carried out during TELIC
Unfortunately we're not allowed to go on strike. Perhaps that's another civvy trait which may be introduced in the future.
 
#18
The working week will be reduced soon and strikes are definately on the horizon and I aint joking :(
 
#19
Shorter working weeks - that must be a regular trait. Most STABs work 12 days out of 14 (2 working weeks + a training weekend = 2 days off!!)

Regulars on the other hand mostly enjoy a 5 day week.

OOps, sorry. Late start on monday and early finish friday = (3 day + 2x 1/2 day)

OOOOOOPS, sorry. Sports afternoon on Wednesday (2days + 3 x 1/2 days).

They'll be flying folks home at the weekend from Ops soon. The TA but in reverse. During the week part-timers!!!!!

(Note to all PARAs, snipers and hardmen - I'm only joking!!!)
 

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