Changing the army - how?

It does raise the question as to why the three Services have such widely different approaches to Staff Training, RN 10 week residential, RAF 5 separate courses over many years totalling 14 weeks, Army 26 weeks with jollies to the USA and France (Andover as well if you are very, very lucky =-) ).

All to achieve a similar output?

ICSC(M) is no longer a 10 week residential course- it is now primarily a distance learning course run through the DLE. The course is supposed to take approximately two years to complete with a four week residential block at around six months in and a two week residential block at around the 18 month mark. The rest of the course is to be completed remotely.
 
Having spent a few years on a tri-service course with RAF and RN YOs, some of the RAF types (aircrew) were among the most immature and incompetent holders of the Queen's commission I've ever come across.
That’s because they’re solely responsible for themselves and are never exposed to anyone outside their immediate peer group or instructors.
 

japseyewarrior

War Hero
That’s because they’re solely responsible for themselves and are never exposed to anyone outside their immediate peer group or instructors.
Until they meet AAC NCO pilots...and then they can't understand why we haven't been to Sandhurst and did we really pass the same aptitude test as them becuase it's a superpower test as far as they're concerned and they make up the top 2% of the population :jocolor:
 
That’s because they’re solely responsible for themselves and are never exposed to anyone outside their immediate peer group or instructors.

And are trying to absorb knowledge and skills [for a sustained 2 year period] at a rate of knots, pun intended, that bins between 1/3 and 2/3 of each course, who are then perfectly at liberty to put themselves up for re-selection into the ground branches.

Just saying..............

:D
 
Until they meet AAC NCO pilots...and then they can't understand why we haven't been to Sandhurst and did we really pass the same aptitude test as them becuase it's a superpower test as far as they're concerned and they make up the top 2% of the population :jocolor:

My bold. Utter manure.
 

japseyewarrior

War Hero
And are trying to absorb knowledge and skills [for a sustained 2 year period] at a rate of knots, pun intended, that bins between 1/3 and 2/3 of each course, who are then perfectly at liberty to put themselves up for re-selection into the ground branches.

Just saying..............

:D
Er, those chop rates are a thing of the past...Ascent get paid for output now :thumright:
 
Until they meet AAC NCO pilots...and then they can't understand why we haven't been to Sandhurst and did we really pass the same aptitude test as them becuase it's a superpower test as far as they're concerned and they make up the top 2% of the population :jocolor:
Yeah, but you’re RW, and thus don’t actually count.
 

japseyewarrior

War Hero
Yeah, but you’re RW, and thus don’t actually count.
That is also true.

Highlight of day 1 ground school at Shawbury was the ice breaker where all the RAF and RN students stood up to declare their desire to fly helicopters since the day they popped out of their mother's vagina...much to the amusement of the Army students who can distinctly remember the very same people standing up on day 1 of ground school at Cranwell declaring their life long dream of being a jet jockey, followed by tears on streaming day when they realised the closest they would get to Linton is a suck of gas on a navex. Next favourite moment was the Pingers vs Junglies course loading spat, which turned entirely reasonable people into little bitches.

At least the people that got multis accepted they were onto a winner, especially if they went Voyager for re-employability on the outside.
 
ICSC(M) is no longer a 10 week residential course- it is now primarily a distance learning course run through the DLE. The course is supposed to take approximately two years to complete with a four week residential block at around six months in and a two week residential block at around the 18 month mark. The rest of the course is to be completed remotely.
I am intrigued to see how (if at all) this works out.

Especially if it becomes a prerequisite for promotion, followed by the wheels explosively detaching from the wagon when the Proms Board realises it has zero eligible candidates in some branches (and either faces putting ships on the wall or crash drafting engineers back to sea)
 
I am intrigued to see how (if at all) this works out.

Especially if it becomes a prerequisite for promotion, followed by the wheels explosively detaching from the wagon when the Proms Board realises it has zero eligible candidates in some branches (and either faces putting ships on the wall or crash drafting engineers back to sea)
Have you responded to the wrong statement here, they don’t match I think?
 

Alamo

LE
Isn't 7 Sqn RAF with their SF Chinooks one of the most decorated squadrons in the RAF? Not the squadron itself but the aircrew in it.
In terms of awards being made whilst serving on the sun, almost definitely. Of course people switch sqns so 7 may not hold the biggest number currently.
 
The same way that army officers who last saw the underside of a basha 15 years ago wear hill walking gear for their office job?
Most Army Officers wear what they were issued or ridiculously coloured chinos with a pinstripe shirt. Not sure what you wear hillwalking but I wear neither uniform (unless in the Falklands) or chinos.
 
Most Army Officers wear what they were issued or ridiculously coloured chinos with a pinstripe shirt. Not sure what you wear hillwalking but I wear neither uniform (unless in the Falklands) or chinos.
Think you missed my point, old horse.

We rinse pilots for wearing their flying suits everywhere, when our officers wear MTP ( pyjamas and walking books, roughly equivalent to hillwalking gear ) to their office jobs for decades after they last went out on the ground.

Just as so many on Miltwitter lose their sh.it as to why the Army has barrack dress/ SD etc when it should be focussing on winning campaigns... missing the point that Telic & Herrick were planned by staff officers in Whitehall & TFH wearing DPM & MTP.

Not going to die on this hill, mind
 
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Think you missed my point, old horse.

We rinse pilots for wearing their flying suits everywhere, when our officers wear MTP ( pyjamas and walking books, roughly equivalent to hillwalking gear ) to their office jobs for decades after they last went out on the ground.

Just as so many on Miltwitter lose their sh.it was to why the Army has barrack dress/ SD etc when it should be focussing on winning campaigns... missing the point that Telic & Herrick were planned by staff officers in Whitehall & TFH wearing DPM & MTP.

Not going to die on this hill, mind
The difference being that for years Aircrew maintained their flying pay when not at a flying station, part of this was wearing a romper suit on the off chance. I don't think there's an Army equivalent.
 
The difference being that for years Aircrew maintained their flying pay when not at a flying station, part of this was wearing a romper suit on the off chance. I don't think there's an Army equivalent.

What is colloquially referred to as Flying Pay is correctly titled "Recruiting & Retention Pay (Flying)".

The award of RRP(F) relates to your aircrew spec (pilot, navigator (now WSO I believe), Navy Observer, air engineer, winchman etc) and how long you have been serving in that role. There are also niche pay spines (Professional Aviator, for instance) further downstream.

Whether you are based at a flying station or current on a particular type is neither here nor there. Once you're awarded RRP(F), you remain awarded it unless you re-branch or elect to stay in ground duties for more than two tours.

Lastly, my observation over a fairly long period in the Joint Environment - the whole 'flying suits' thing boils down to nothing more than petty jealousy. Across the Services, aircrew have a far more demanding job, the fail rate to get to a FL Sqn is pretty horrendous, but, there's no getting away from it - the actual job of strapping a multi-million pound toy to your arse and going skywards is unsurpassed. You can - and plenty do - fail a flying trg course and then go on to a stellar career in the ground branches (of any Service). I know of numerous failed aircrew from my era who are now 1- or 2*s in other spheres. I know not of one failed infanteer, loggie, air-trafficker or J2 type who has then gone on to become a 2* pilot.

PS: The above is not to sound like an arrogant c**t by the way, I despise arrogance and personally have plenty of 'aggressively average' reports from flying courses etc that would allude to the fact that I have no grounds to be arrogant or cocky at all. I was, in fact, always rather a humble and slightly under-confident student.
 
our officers wear MTP ( pyjamas and walking books, roughly equivalent to hillwalking gear ) to their office jobs for decades after they last went out on the ground.
A fashion which began in the last century, at HQ LAND when Mike Jackson Prince Of Darkness held sway there, and from his Day 1 turned up to work in DPM.

It rapidly permeated every army HQ to the extent that (AIUI) the carefully staffed plan for purchasing and distributing maintenance stocks was outstripped, leading in turn to shortages of replacement CS95 garments for units on ops in NI.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
The same way that army officers who last saw the underside of a basha 15 years ago wear hill walking gear for their office job?
Same way I wore fire-retardant Action Working Dress to sit in a room in Northwood or Portsmouth, battling with nothing more dangerous or combustible than Powerpoint. (Not complaining, it's comfortable & less hassle to look after than #3 rig, but it's not required for the environment)

You weren't there, maaaan, you don't know what it was like...
 

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