Changing the army - how?

There's a major difference between the Engineers and the Signals, right there - Signals SSMs and RSMs come from the RD roster, which is populated with tarmac mechanics and bull enthusiasts, who were either in trades with no supervisory qualification, or who failed to be selected for same and had to drop off the trade roster.
I’ve never quite understood the need for an RD cadre in the Signals (or indeed REME).

RE SSMs are selected from the best QMSIs, who, in turn are the best combat engineer leaders and managers.

As QMSIs they will have done a demanding course to hone their combat engineer task planning skills and learn to teach them. They will then have completed a demanding tour as an expert instructor.

RE SSMs are key combat engineering mentors for troop commanders, troop staff sergeants and section commanders.

You used to find the occasional tarmac mechanic in Plant Troop of the Support Squadron. Unlikely to have found much bull though. I’m not sure of the Corps has any pavers left.
 
I’ve never quite understood the need for an RD cadre in the Signals (or indeed REME).

RE SSMs are selected from the best QMSIs, who, in turn are the best combat engineer leaders and managers.

As QMSIs they will have done a demanding course to hone their combat engineer task planning skills and learn to teach them. They will then have completed a demanding tour as an expert instructor.

RE SSMs are key combat engineering mentors for troop commanders, troop staff sergeants and section commanders.

You used to find the occasional tarmac mechanic in Plant Troop of the Support Squadron. Unlikely to have found much bull though. I’m not sure of the Corps has any pavers left.
I can't see that working in R Signals, the run up implies Supervisor. There's a volume of J1 to do and they sort of pick it up. I can't think of an SSM i'd have gone to for technical advice in the last 20 years. There was an aspiration to change the role to Ops WO but it never came off, probably because that isn't the Sandhurst model.
 

lextalionis

War Hero
Not sure about that. For example the number of people with director in their title who have not signed a form 288 and indeed lack the breath of vision, ability and experience to direct a company is shocking. (One could also say the same about the number of people described as engineers who do not have a degree in engineering and are in fact fitters - itself a noble calling).

However the real point is that the armed forces sign up for the unlimited liability clause in pursuit of their profession, which is not the case in the commercial world. This seriously constrains the ability of those from outside the armed forces to make useful observations on structures.
Your point about "unlimited liability" in terms of personnel in combat is certainly true and there are differences and concessions to the unique challenges of military life, such as the use of courts martial rather than the normal civilian courts.

Yet, does that really apply to all or even most of institutional military life? Many, sometimes even most, personnel never face combat and few, if any, face it frequently at the moment. There are surely areas where "civilian" knowledge is applicable, even if it must be adapted, in a helpful way.
 

lextalionis

War Hero
I can't see that working in R Signals, the run up implies Supervisor. There's a volume of J1 to do and they sort of pick it up. I can't think of an SSM i'd have gone to for technical advice in the last 20 years. There was an aspiration to change the role to Ops WO but it never came off, probably because that isn't the Sandhurst model.
What volume of J1 - ration returns aren't that demanding now are they? J1 EVERYONE can do and lets face it if you are RD R SIGNALS the closest you get to ops is coming in for a brew to see what real work needs doing and what the proper plans for the Squadron/Regt are
 
What volume of J1 - ration returns aren't that demanding now are they? J1 EVERYONE can do and lets face it if you are RD R SIGNALS the closest you get to ops is coming in for a brew to see what real work needs doing and what the proper plans for the Squadron/Regt are
Duty of care tasks have gone up exponentially, along with the amount of accountability, not enough to justify an office though. Out of interest, what did they do in the Ptarmigan days?
 
Duty of care tasks have gone up exponentially, along with the amount of accountability, not enough to justify an office though. Out of interest, what did they do in the Ptarmigan days?
In the BAOR days, there was a clear SSM role in a Brigade Headquarters Signal Squadron. A classic SSM role; morale, discipline in the field, movement planning and convoy discipline, security, location administration. IIRC they did location recce and managed the move in too. Bear in mind, a Bde HQ swung once a day.
 
In the BAOR days, there was a clear SSM role in a Brigade Headquarters Signal Squadron. A classic SSM role; morale, discipline in the field, movement planning and convoy discipline, security, location administration. IIRC they did location recce and managed the move in too. Bear in mind, a Bde HQ swung once a day.
Can't see that situation happening again assuming the frequency of move is tied to the ability of the comms capability too move.
 
Duty of care tasks have gone up exponentially, along with the amount of accountability, not enough to justify an office though. Out of interest, what did they do in the Ptarmigan days?
Duty of care tasks have always existed and should be exercised at every level of management, I did as much G1 as the RSM and Tp SSgts’ ever did.

During Ptarmigan days they drove round the various locations picking you up on Cam Nets and other tactical cough deficiencies. In camp they had more drunken shenanigans to deal with then as drinking was a 7 day sport and not mainly a weekend activity.

I’ve said this before and still stand by it that R SIGNALS live in the dark ages by continuing to employ RDs in the digital area, which by very definition the Corps is supposed to lead the Army in.

The Corps leadership has for years been too shortsighted and only ever looked out what was in it for them and never for the benefit of the great and good. In a word shambolic!

I was glad when my son joined up and never mentioned joining the Corps and went REME Air Tech instead.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
Yet, does that really apply to all or even most of institutional military life? Many, sometimes even most, personnel never face combat and few, if any, face it frequently at the moment. There are surely areas where "civilian" knowledge is applicable, even if it must be adapted, in a helpful way.
Fair point, although that may be an argument for civilianisation of some non-deploying roles rather than one of corporate rank structure.

I suspect that the most useful civilian management culture technique to adopt would be the one that goes "You're incompetent. This is a P45."

Cue red herring discussion of the measurement of military competence.
 
Fair point, although that may be an argument for civilianisation of some non-deploying roles rather than one of corporate rank structure.

I suspect that the most useful civilian management culture technique to adopt would be the one that goes "You're incompetent. This is a P45."

Cue red herring discussion of the measurement of military competence.
I’m currently part of a huge piece of work for a large MoD and their transformation to a new TOM. Believe me it can be be done but mindsets need to change as do the personnel at VVSO rank
 
I suspect that the most useful civilian management culture technique to adopt would be the one that goes "You're incompetent. This is a P45."

Cue red herring discussion of the measurement of military competence.
It’s a valid discussion, the only problem being we’re generalists, and often sent to do a job we’re not SQEP for.
 
In the BAOR days, there was a clear SSM role in a Brigade Headquarters Signal Squadron. A classic SSM role; morale, discipline in the field, movement planning and convoy discipline, security, location administration. IIRC they did location recce and managed the move in too. Bear in mind, a Bde HQ swung once a day.
The Recce role in a Bde Sig Sqn was mainly down to the 2ic who was also the Bde Recce Officer, The move in didn't need an SSM the Main Tp SSgt or even Complex Screw could do it..

I'll give you the discipline bit and to a certain extent morale, albeit who's morale went up when the SSM walked round?

When the Bde Sig Sqns got uplifted to RSMs the whole of the other roles you allude to went to the Main Tp SSgt and complex screw.
 
The Recce role in a Bde Sig Sqn was mainly down to the 2ic who was also the Bde Recce Officer, The move in didn't need an SSM the Main Tp SSgt or even Complex Screw could do it..

I'll give you the discipline bit and to a certain extent morale, albeit who's morale went up when the SSM walked round?

When the Bde Sig Sqns got uplifted to RSMs the whole of the other roles you allude to went to the Main Tp SSgt and complex screw.
I answered from the perspective of a sapper squadron ops officer who brought two CVs to the HQ. The SSM was a busy bloke. But, then, the Brigade Commander was the very demanding Scott Grant who has been discussed earlier on this thread.
 
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