Changing the army - how?

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Unless it was very specific or vocational, such as MEng, cyber etc and the MOD could demonstrate through life value?

If we were concerned about cost vs value of education somebody should do a cost benefit analysis of I/A/HCSC (and RCDS).

I firmly agree on both points. RCDS in particular, given that very few British attendees are on their way to genuinely senior leadership positions.
 

Allan74

Old-Salt
I am, having spend almost 40 years in a close knit regimental family.

Test case: how many of the 19xx Ships Company of HMS Dashing Grey Funnel directly contribute financially to the welfare of the company of that ship today? Or to the ex company of that ship in 20xx?
Haven't got a clue..
 
Indeed - If this is true




Integrity - It would appear, seems to have disappeared along with spines in certain parts of the upper echelons.
Notwithstanding the fact that the article is behind a pay wall, what the **** has it got to do with the Army?
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
When so much of the population already has degrees, it's much more efficient just to either select those who already have one or to select entrants irrespective of whether they have a degree.
Given the Army's woes and its need to select the best, the offer of a free degree might help. I suspect that the demise of the SSC has much to answer for.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
Haven't got a clue..
It's close to 100% in my family.

As I've posted on another thread - the Army's biggest problem is not the regimental system; "fixing" it will not solve the Army's woes and could quite possibly make them worse.
 
Notwithstanding the fact that the article is behind a pay wall, what the **** has it got to do with the Army?

Has the other Services not been given a load of pixels on this Army thread ?

There is an issue / problem that starts right at the very top with VSO's - Army in the lead followed by varying degrees with the other 2 Services.

Scratch your ARRSE and have a think about it - Although I think it will sail right over your head as you appear to have been part of the issue / problem.
 
Has the other Services not been given a load of pixels on this Army thread ?

There is an issue / problem that starts right at the very top with VSO's - Army in the lead followed by varying degrees with the other 2 Services.

Scratch your ARRSE and have a think about it - Although I think it will sail right over your head as you appear to have been part of the issue / problem.
Firstly, you posted an article behind a paywall so, unless we read The Times, we can only read the headlines. Are we supposed to guess the content of the article that you use as evidence?

Secondly, it is about a specific relationship between a VVSO and a VSOs that may or may not have failed catastrophically and tragically. It’s still subject to a coroner’s verdict and therefore speculative and using it to make a generic criticism of VSOs is rather distasteful.

Thirdly, whilst we all agree there are some serious issues with the VVSO, there is no evidence to suggest that there are relationships as toxic journalists are suggesting that this one was.

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if Radikin is never CDS. From what I’ve read he’s an autocratic bully. But that doesn’t mean that any or all of the other VVSOs are the same.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
I’m not convinced. The people who have failed over the last 20 years are the product of the old system.
While I bow to few in my disdain for the performance of VSO over the past 20 years making that argument requires you to prove that anyone else could have done better and that their failure was as a result of junior officer selection and training.

For sure, having a CGS / CDS resign (ha!) would have perhaps given pause for thought. But I doubt it would have secured much budget or prevented the inevitable brain and capability drain that is the result in any declining organisation.
 

JCC

LE
I wouldn't argue the Regimental system is the problem but rather the desire to keep the cap-badge count up. It all falls into disrepute when you see the Loamshires marching out and half of them are made up from other Regiments.

A Regiment should mean a Regiment not a reinforced Company; anything else is merely lying.
 
Firstly, you posted an article behind a paywall so, unless we read The Times, we can only read the headlines. Are we supposed to guess the content of the article that you use as evidence?

Secondly, it is about a specific relationship between a VVSO and a VSOs that may or may not have failed catastrophically and tragically. It’s still subject to a coroner’s verdict and therefore speculative and using it to make a generic criticism of VSOs is rather distasteful.

Thirdly, whilst we all agree there are some serious issues with the VVSO, there is no evidence to suggest that there are relationships as toxic journalists are suggesting that this one was.

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if Radikin is never CDS. From what I’ve read he’s an autocratic bully. But that doesn’t mean that any or all of the other VVSOs are the same.
He absolutely isn’t.

He has very little time for the ‘unionised’ old guard who want to keep on repeating failure though.
 

Alamo

LE
While I bow to few in my disdain for the performance of VSO over the past 20 years making that argument requires you to prove that anyone else could have done better and that their failure was as a result of junior officer selection and training.

For sure, having a CGS / CDS resign (ha!) would have perhaps given pause for thought. But I doubt it would have secured much budget or prevented the inevitable brain and capability drain that is the result in any declining organisation.
The thought that VSOs resigning would change anything is for the birds IMO. Next man up.

For a resignation to have any resonance it needs to be on a specific point of principle. ‘You don’t give us enough cash’ or ‘don’t love us enough’ aren’t credible
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
The more I see of 1SL and future CDS and the more of his stuff I read, the more I like him and the more I suspect he might well be the Haldane or Cardwell the Army so desperately needs. An informed outsider, without emotional or cultural skin in the game, is exactly what's called for, especially if CGS is smart and SoS and the PM give him a hunting licence.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
He'll probably be OK for the RAF and the Navy, as well, come to that....
 
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Allan74

Old-Salt
It's close to 100% in my family.

As I've posted on another thread - the Army's biggest problem is not the regimental system; "fixing" it will not solve the Army's woes and could quite possibly make them worse.
What do you think the Army's biggest problem is...?
 
Secondly, it is about a specific relationship between a VVSO and a VSOs that may or may not have failed catastrophically and tragically. It’s still subject to a coroner’s verdict and therefore speculative and using it to make a generic criticism of VSOs is rather distasteful.

If that is how they operate between themselves - Then I sure as **** wouldn't want any of them near me.

Distasteful ?

I'll tell you what is distasteful - Sacking a guy with 35 years under his belt by email - Not only is it distasteful, it is ****ing disgraceful.
 

Alamo

LE
If that is how they operate between themselves - Then I sure as **** wouldn't want any of them near me.

Distasteful ?

I'll tell you what is distasteful - Sacking a guy with 35 years under his belt by email - Not only is it distasteful, it is ****ing disgraceful.
Is also a sensationalist way of reporting it. It was no surprise and the change to the post was well known beforehand. He knew it was happening and when.
 
If that is how they operate between themselves - Then I sure as **** wouldn't want any of them near me.

Distasteful ?

I'll tell you what is distasteful - Sacking a guy with 35 years under his belt by email - Not only is it distasteful, it is ****ing disgraceful.
Emotive language taken from quotes by friends. We have no way of knowing if it’s true.
He absolutely isn’t.

He has very little time for the ‘unionised’ old guard who want to keep on repeating failure though.
I chose my word carefully. The language used in the email that has been leaked is autocratic and borderline narcissistic. But context is all; it may have been a necessary one off to grip a senior leadership team that was off piste. But, if that is his routine method of communicating with his direct reports, then I’d say it bullying.

It is, of course, only one email leaked at a very emotive time. But if this runs, I can see his position becoming untenable.

The press are obviously on this and rightly so. I think it has a long way to run.
 
Emotive language taken from quotes by friends. We have no way of knowing if it’s true.

I chose my word carefully. The language used in the email that has been leaked is autocratic and borderline narcissistic. But context is all; it may have been a necessary one off to grip a senior leadership team that was off piste. But, if that is his routine method of communicating with his direct reports, then I’d say it bullying.

It is, of course, only one email leaked at a very emotive time. But if this runs, I can see his position becoming untenable.

The press are obviously on this and rightly so. I think it has a long way to run.
And therein lies the weakness. A strong character would have had that conversation in private and in person. Potentially unpleasant and emotive but there's no evidence of who said what and how it was received and no one make any mad claims.

As it is. The utter moron who sent said email has exposed themselves to infamy. Said infamy may be unjustified but.

They are now toxic goods as far as the RN should be concerned and if we had a politican leading MoD who forced VSOs to live by V&S then said moron would be made to resign or outright sacked.
 

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