Changing the army - how?

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I am aware of a number of Officers who were put through certain trade degrees recently who are currently in dispute with the Army.

These officers were from the upper field ranks and to do their degrees had to leave the Army to do them (they were not allowed to remain serving during their studies). They were promised they would retain their ranks on their return to service in their new roles. None of them were, they all bumped down to 1st Lt, and had to start again. To say they are angry and disillusioned is an understatement.
This sounds a bit odd, so I echo @Alamo s questions.

1st Lt and the fact that (I'm fairly sure) British officers retain their ranks and job while doing separated degrees, suggest that you are talking about the US Army?
 
I am aware of a number of Officers who were put through certain trade degrees recently who are currently in dispute with the Army.

These officers were from the upper field ranks and to do their degrees had to leave the Army to do them (they were not allowed to remain serving during their studies). They were promised they would retain their ranks on their return to service in their new roles. None of them were, they all bumped down to 1st Lt, and had to start again. To say they are angry and disillusioned is an understatement.
If they weren't doing an In Service degree where they are in the Army, at their current rank whilst doing it, then they left the Army to do a degree then rejoined.

I've never heard of such promises for people who leave and then come back, sounds odd.
 

QRK2

LE
What we should have done is kept the Short Service Commission at 3 years and offered carrots/opportunities to those we then wanted to keep. Not sign everyone up for 12 years without having seen them actually do the job in a Unit

With the Initial Training being restricted to a Mons like course, possibly with the option of this being carried out in Summer vacation for those at University.
 

Alamo

LE
If they weren't doing an In Service degree where they are in the Army, at their current rank whilst doing it, then they left the Army to do a degree then rejoined.

I've never heard of such promises for people who leave and then come back, sounds odd.
You’re more polite than me, I think it’s BS.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
I am aware of a number of Officers who were put through certain trade degrees recently who are currently in dispute with the Army.

These officers were from the upper field ranks and to do their degrees had to leave the Army to do them (they were not allowed to remain serving during their studies). They were promised they would retain their ranks on their return to service in their new roles. None of them were, they all bumped down to 1st Lt, and had to start again. To say they are angry and disillusioned is an understatement.
And that is a very good example of what is killing the army, upper echelons lying and not showing one of the core ethos as here clearly no integrity shown by the officers who promised these men they would retain their ranks.
 
Holing a commission , even from RMAS, does not directly equate to possessing charisma, intelligence or leadership.
If the Army had a brain it would recruit non-grads, and fund the degrees of those whom it considered worthy of retaining after 3 years (Guess what, younger readers, we used to do this too).
Fixed, FOC.
 
And that is a very good example of what is killing the army, upper echelons lying and not showing one of the core ethos as here clearly no integrity shown by the officers who promised these men they would retain their ranks.
Also very unlikely to be true....I've never heard of such a scheme?

The closest I recall is about 15 years ago there was a very limited scheme to recruit military doctors from any cap badge that involved junior officers resigning commissions to undertake medical school - paid for by the MOD - to then rejoin as PQOs. I never actually met anybody that did it though?
 
And that is a very good example of what is killing the army, upper echelons lying and not showing one of the core ethos as here clearly no integrity shown

Indeed - If this is true

The former head of the Royal Marines was “sacked by email”


Integrity - It would appear, seems to have disappeared along with spines in certain parts of the upper echelons.
 
The closest I recall is about 15 years ago there was a very limited scheme to recruit military doctors from any cap badge that involved junior officers resigning commissions to undertake medical school - paid for by the MOD - to then rejoin as PQOs. I never actually met anybody that did it though?
Unsure on it for doctors, certainly a lot transferred into QARANC and got paid for all their nurse training not many years ago
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Which army?
What ‘upper field rank’?
Leave and then rejoin?

British
Major
Career pathway change, officers in questions had previous degrees and had served in different roles, one was RE, can't remember what corps/Regiment the others were in. They went to study medicine doing one of the fast track post grad degrees. They wanted to stay in whilst they studied, bit were told that wouldn't be possible, but army were happy to support them financially whilst they studied, they got a yearly 15k a year, and were told they when they rejoined they would be allowed to return at the rank they had attained when they left to study.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
What we should have done is kept the Short Service Commission at 3 years and offered carrots/opportunities to those we then wanted to keep. Not sign everyone up for 12 years without having seen them actually do the job in a Unit
Quite.
And, as those who joined on Reg C were quite aware, the Reg C was provisional for IIRC 2 years - meaning that twats would not survive and in the 3 years they had there was a limit to the damage they could cause.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
Also very unlikely to be true....I've never heard of such a scheme?

The closest I recall is about 15 years ago there was a very limited scheme to recruit military doctors from any cap badge that involved junior officers resigning commissions to undertake medical school - paid for by the MOD - to then rejoin as PQOs. I never actually met anybody that did it though?
Maybe, maybe not, but the mind set of the story sums up a fair few officers and SNCO I have come across in recent years.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
Indeed - If this is true




Integrity - It would appear, seems to have disappeared along with spines in certain parts of the upper echelons.
If it s not true, others know more than me, but integrity is at the heart of the problem, especially if not true, proves that it is dead in the mainstream.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
This sounds a bit odd, so I echo @Alamo s questions.

1st Lt and the fact that (I'm fairly sure) British officers retain their ranks and job while doing separated degrees, suggest that you are talking about the US Army?

British, check PM for more details.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If the Army had a brain it would recruit non-grads, and fund the degrees of those whom it considered worthy of retaining after 3 years (Guess what, younger readers, we used to do this too).

I'm not sure that's a particularly efficient use of money. Sending people on a 3 year degree course is expensive - between salary, T&S, and tuition fees, you're looking at a minimum of ~60k per student per year (assuming you send Lts and not someone more senior).

When so much of the population already has degrees, it's much more efficient just to either select those who already have one or to select entrants irrespective of whether they have a degree.
 
British
Major
Career pathway change, officers in questions had previous degrees and had served in different roles, one was RE, can't remember what corps/Regiment the others were in. They went to study medicine doing one of the fast track post grad degrees. They wanted to stay in whilst they studied, bit were told that wouldn't be possible, but army were happy to support them financially whilst they studied, they got a yearly 15k a year, and were told they when they rejoined they would be allowed to return at the rank they had attained when they left to study.
sounds familiar to the scheme that I was describing. Although, I'm pretty sure it was capped at OF2 (Capt). Maybe the person you describe had BL selected but not substantiated?
 
I'm not sure that's a particularly efficient use of money. Sending people on a 3 year degree course is expensive - between salary, T&S, and tuition fees, you're looking at a minimum of ~60k per student per year (assuming you send Lts and not someone more senior).

When so much of the population already has degrees, it's much more efficient just to either select those who already have one or to select entrants irrespective of whether they have a degree.
Unless it was very specific or vocational, such as MEng, cyber etc and the MOD could demonstrate through life value?

If we were concerned about cost vs value of education somebody should do a cost benefit analysis of I/A/HCSC (and RCDS).
 

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