Chávez to invade the Netherlands

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by stoatman, Mar 9, 2006.

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  1. Well, the Netherlands Antilles at least.

    don't bother, it's in Dutch, but a translation follows:

    I can only assume that, having got nowhere with trying to pick a verbal fight with America, he is now trying to pick on his small neighbours who are unlikely to pre-emptively kick his arse.

    In case you're wondering where the hell these sleepy little holiday islands are located, they are here:

    But, back in the real world, would he be crazy enough to do it? Would it be like the Falklands in 1982, only with more sun and less sheep shagging?
  2. This chaps got the wrong idea, the whole point of government in South America is NOT try and get invaded by the USA or in this case the Netherlands. I mean theres no oil in Venezuela so hes got quite a safety margin but this man is really going full-steam ahead to get his name in the history books.

    Regarding the islands however, do the Netherlands have the military punch to ‘pull a Thatcher’? Last time I checked Venezuela have something which could pass as an army in a poor light. They’ve also been buying from the Russians and the Spanish in quiet sizable numbers.
  3. Accurate apart from the fact that Venezuela is the worlds fifth biggest oil exporter and supplies 15% of the US's oil!

    Definitley ripe for a good invading.
  4. Yes there is. They supply about 15% of the USA's total use. I agree with what you say about Chavez though. Just you wait until Dubya III is done with Iraq, matey.
  5. Are you serious?

    Top oil-producing countries -
    1 Saudi Arabia
    2 US
    3 Russia
    4 Iran
    5 Mexico
    6 Venezuela
    7 China
    8 Norway
    9 UK
    10 Iraq
  6. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    I suppose that the Dutch could always invoke the NATO treaty if Senor Chavez got too upitty.

    It would just mean that "overstretch" wouldn't be a word that you found in a thesaurus or dictionary.

    The shaved chimp would probably go for it, if only to "safeguard" his oil supply now that Iraq, and the possibility of an Iranian invasion is becoming too messy for words.
  7. Well the NATO treaty really kicked in with us in 82 did,nt it. An attack on one is an attack on us all .... Load of bollox. Chuffed to bits we showed the world we could stand up for ourselves without thier "help". Now the cold wars over so to speak is there any need for it ? Mind you I,ll have no probs with helping the Dutch. They are one of our best european "friends".

  8. Oops, I stand quite embarrassingly corrected.
  9. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    Well, I thought that it would be nice for the Belgians, Norwegians, Luxembourgers, and the Spanish to show their support.....

    Now, where's the " irony" key on this thing?...
  10. Purple_Flash

    Purple_Flash LE Moderator

    Does anyone know if the the NATO treaty covers colonies which the Falkland Islands are? Note that the Netherlands counts its territory next to Venezuala as a constituent part of the Kingdom - perhaps a stronger claim for protection than a colony.
  11. Purple Flash,

    NATO Article V: The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all. Consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

    That's why the US could stay (technically) out of the Falklands War, especially as it interpreted the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (commonly known as the Rio Pact) as non-binding, as one it's central principles is that an attack against one is to be considered an attack against them all; we didn't attack Argentina, and Argentina didn't attack the UK in Europe.

    How NATO would interpret Article V with regards to the Netherlands Antilles is a bit beyond me; I guess there're far better brains floating around here that can answer that one (as, as you say, the Kingdom of the Netherlands includes the Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles and Aruba). IMHO the same argument as used viz the Falklands would be applied, but I guess any US involvement would violate the Rio Pact anyway...

    PS - I lifted the pertinent points from wikipedia, as I couldn't remember the verbatim definitions, before anyone accuses me of being a total spotter ;)



    Edited for spreeling and grammar. I'm off to bed...
  12. The region is still part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and hence has no autonomy over issues including defence, foreign affairs, citizenship and extradition. However, like European Netherlands and Aruba it is autonomous over internal affairs and the three are constitutionally equal.

    Took this from Wiki....... so I guess its okay for Article 5. The septics are probably rubbing their hands together for a chance to "help" in the region.
  13. Top oil-producing countries -
    1 Saudi Arabia
    2 US
    3 Russia
    4 Iran
    5 Mexico
    6 Venezuela
    7 China
    8 Norway
    9 UK
    10 Iraq

    Does the UK really produce more oil than Iraq? You learn something new every day.
  14. If I remember correctly, the Rio pact is a mutual defence treaty, and thus does not apply with regard to a party which is an aggressor. I remember some dago on another forum being really annoyed that the US did not come and support Argentina during the Falklands, since they merely considered that they were reclaiming their territory, and that the British counterattack was the act of aggression, to which the US replied "poke off".

    The Dutch definitely can punch above their weight though, and could probably make a mess of Venezuela's tiny navy with the following:

    Naval squadron:
    Frigates (twelve ships in three classes, 10 ships to remain in service).
    4 "Zeven Provinciën" Class Air Defense Destroyers (LCF Destroyers, officially classified as frigates but in size and role they are destroyers)
    -32 VLS SM-2MR SAM (medium range)
    -32 VLS Evolved Sea Sparrow ESSM (short range)
    -8 Harpoon SSM
    -2 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS
    -2 20mm
    -4 12.75inch torpedo tubes
    -1 5/54 DP
    -Tomahawk TacTom cruise missile (future order)
    8 "Karel Doorman" M-Frigates (2 sold to Chile, 2 sold to Belgium)
    Rotterdam Class LPD Amphibious Transport Ships (one in service and one "Johan de Witt" building, due to enter service in 2007).
    Replenishment Ships (two ships).
    Submarine service:
    4 "Walrus" Class Diesel/electric submarines.
    One torpedo recovery ship.
  15. But aren't the Dutch in the middle of a spring clearout? Ships going to Chile, planes going to Chile even the UK is selling to Chile. But then if Chile upgrades then Argentina has already and will a bit more so what about the Falklands but that's another thread. Venezuela is just posturing but then that's what Chamberlain thought about Nazi Germany.