CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

[Cold_Collation]

The UK don't currently have a major cutting edge tank manufacturing program

We apparently don't even have a requirement.

Good post, by the way.

 

[Cold_Collation]

As I said earlier, start knocking out bagged charges and Sabo rounds again!

Agreed there, never understood why the Yanks put a Gas Turbine in a Panzer, the things make an Oil tanker seem frugal!

Power-to-weight and, apparently, better acceleration/mobility.

Also an horrendous heat signature, too, but moving swiftly on...

 

[incendiarycutlery]

The armour?
I thought they used a form of Dorchester or Chobham in the Abrams.

Burlington, I believe. That was forty years ago and they’ve been doing their own armour work for a while.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Burlington, I believe. That was forty years ago and they’ve been doing their own armour work for a while.

DU armour as well as DU rounds?

 

[incendiarycutlery]

The realistic choices are:

1. Get in on the Franco/German tank project early and negotiate to be the development partner for some of the more interesting bits of electronics kit.
2. Wait until the French/Germans and US both have new tanks and then invite them to submit competitive bids for a straight commercial purchase.
3. Wait a few years until the dust has settled and buy all the really good kit from third party manufacturers and do your own integration into your own design.

I think 1 is out as well. French and German work share discussions will be bad enough without adding the rosbifs/ inselaffe.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Or buy Korean. Or Israeli.

No matter. Armour is dead. We have Rangers.

 

[jrwlynch]

Or buy Korean. Or Israeli.

No matter. Armour is dead. We have Rangers.

And don't forget the Magic Red Button.

 

[Cold_Collation]

And don't forget the Magic Red Button.

View attachment 635148

We should be hitting that right about now... that'll show Vlad.

 

[robinrocket111]

Also an horrendous heat signature, too, but moving swiftly on...

Moving back forty odd years, when Cyclops 2RTR had the STank on trials and took them on to Saltou. Our Chieftains could see them miles away, even in a hull down position the heat signature was huge.

 

[bob231]

Or buy Korean. Or Israeli.

No matter. Armour is dead. We have Rangers.

Yebbut...

Oh.

 

[riksavage]

The Americans have started working on what they think they will need in the 2035 or 2040 time frame. They're not going to wait until their tank is obsolete before starting on a 15 or 20 year program to develop and field its replacement.

Concepts for next generation tanks are looking at what amounts to cutting edge fighter jets on tracks. The tech will be more about sensors, electronics, and software rather than new armour or bigger guns (although those may be involved as well).

If the UK decide to sign up as a pre-launch customer for the next gen US tank you will almost certainly not be allowed anywhere near the development process for any of the cutting edge tech. That would be reserved for American firms only. You would however be permitted to sign a very large cheque which will grant UK companies the privilege of bidding on providing the wheel rims or the optional BV. The UK don't currently have a major cutting edge tank manufacturing program and aren't going to buy enough tanks either for the US to see any reason why they should bring you in on the ground floor.

The realistic choices are:

1. Get in on the Franco/German tank project early and negotiate to be the development partner for some of the more interesting bits of electronics kit.
2. Wait until the French/Germans and US both have new tanks and then invite them to submit competitive bids for a straight commercial purchase.
3. Wait a few years until the dust has settled and buy all the really good kit from third party manufacturers and do your own integration into your own design.

What we will do is join one of your listed programmes, throw money at it only to withdraw at the 11th hour because it won’t fit inside the Puma replacement! We will then realise it was a mistake and re-join the programme at great cost with zero gain (manufactured overseas, benefiting US/France/Germany).

 

[oldsoak]

We could also chat to the Poles, or even S Koreans.

 

[dragon825]

We could also chat to the Poles, or even S Koreans.

some interesting videos of the K2 and leopard 2 going head to head in Norway during trials this month, the K2 blasted past the leopard in the snow on one video

 

[riksavage]

some interesting videos of the K2 and leopard 2 going head to head in Norway during trials this month, the K2 blasted past the leopard in the snow on one video

Korean winters are brutal. I’m sure Korean tanks have been designed with winter conditions in mind. Plus very mountainous terrain.

 

[ObnoxiousJockGit]

Korean winters are brutal. I’m sure Korean tanks have been designed with winter conditions in mind. Plus very mountainous terrain.

They also only fully protect the frontal 40 degrees with armour, unlike the more common 60. That is why the Turks didn't do a carbon copy for the Altay. Japan are also on the 40 degree kick.

 

[terminal]

They also only fully protect the frontal 40 degrees with armour, unlike the more common 60. That is why the Turks didn't do a carbon copy for the Altay. Japan are also on the 40 degree kick.

It might not be a coincidence that both countries are mountainous and surrounded by sea. I understand that with the Japanese they gave up some armour protection for greater mobility in steep terrain where there is limited room for manoeuvre.

 

[riksavage]

It might not be a coincidence that both countries are mountainous and surrounded by sea. I understand that with the Japanese they gave up some armour protection for greater mobility in steep terrain where there is limited room for manoeuvre.

Korean tank suspension units fitted to selected road wheels allow for the raising and lowering of the front or rear of the tank thus facilitating an increased/decreased barrel angle (think S tank) for use in mountainous terrain (firing up or down the side of mountains).

The Korean defence industry is on a roll, on sea, land and air. Their AEGIS equipped destroyers are fitted with the highest number of VL tubes (128 vs 48 on a T45) of any comparable ship in the world. They also don’t suffer from war guilt like Japan. A sizeable number of Japanese companies involved in the manufacture of weapons are stopping, the opposite is happening in Korea.

The UK could do worse than partner with Korea, we could learn a lot from how they run their shipyards.

They don’t just make outstanding fried chicken!

 

[Listy]

Their AEGIS equipped destroyers are fitted with the highest number of VL tubes (128 vs 48 on a T45) of any comparable ship in the world.

Might that be due to their intended operational area? IE in a sea within striking range of a land based air force. Thus a swarm attack is highly likely, so you'll need a high throw weight.
If I know anything about design there will be a major compromise somewhere to fit that number of tubes in. I suspect it's likely going to be something that would bugger blue water ops as well!

 

[terminal]

Might that be due to their intended operational area? IE in a sea within striking range of a land based air force. Thus a swarm attack is highly likely, so you'll need a high throw weight.
If I know anything about design there will be a major compromise somewhere to fit that number of tubes in. I suspect it's likely going to be something that would bugger blue water ops as well!

They fit all those missile in by just making the ship a lot bigger.

 

[TamH70]

Might that be due to their intended operational area? IE in a sea within striking range of a land based air force. Thus a swarm attack is highly likely, so you'll need a high throw weight.
If I know anything about design there will be a major compromise somewhere to fit that number of tubes in. I suspect it's likely going to be something that would bugger blue water ops as well!

I wouldn't imagine that they're anywhere near as bad at sea-keeping as our old Flower-Class corvettes were. Those could roll and pitch on a flat dew-soaked lawn.