CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

gafkiwi

War Hero
That’s been something compromising CV90 in a couple of recent competitions, allegedly.
In the Aussy Land 400 Phase 3 (IFV) procurement the CV90 was apparently cut due to cost. I wonder if that was partly tied into what licensing plan was offered. The AJAX according to the article was "Not fit for purpose"
 
Yes, it was. But the steel was made in Sweden and hull fabrication was in Spain. The contractual terms of ‘Made in Britain’ seem to have been covered by delivering adult Lego sets to South Wales.
Any time a company states “x% built in the UK” I’m always curious as to what that is a % of?
Cost? weight? part count?

With a modern AFV you could import 80% by mass and still make 80% by cost locally.
 

Majorpain

War Hero
Yes, it was. But the steel was made in Sweden and hull fabrication was in Spain. The contractual terms of ‘Made in Britain’ seem to have been covered by delivering adult Lego sets to South Wales.
More accurately, the hull fabrication was in Spain in a facility owned by GD that was light on work. A decision that has come back to haunt them in a massive way.

Interestingly I read today a company in Yorkshire has won the contract for UK boxer hull armour, they have rather impressive capabilities and could probably have done the entire hull for ajax if asked. I bet they would have build it square at the very least....
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
More accurately, the hull fabrication was in Spain in a facility owned by GD that was light on work. A decision that has come back to haunt them in a massive way.

Interestingly I read today a company in Yorkshire has won the contract for UK boxer hull armour, they have rather impressive capabilities and could probably have done the entire hull for ajax if asked. I bet they would have build it square at the very least....
It's probably worth asking why it was light on work; see the Spanish Leo2 build as a reference.

I'm sorry but given the facility's track record (sic), you'd think that once GD had made the decision to build the hulls there, for reasons of reputation alone it would have kept a very close eye on proceedings. As you say, they must be rueing the day.

And yes, there are plenty of heavy fabricators in this country that could have done the job well - not just better, well.
 

Majorpain

War Hero
It's probably worth asking why it was light on work; see the Spanish Leo2 build as a reference.

I'm sorry but given the facility's track record (sic), you'd think that once GD had made the decision to build the hulls there, for reasons of reputation alone it would have kept a very close eye on proceedings. As you say, they must be rueing the day.
Trubia factory had 14m Euro of new equipment for Spain's new 8x8 in 2020, its a bit strange they are buying new and not using the equipment they had used on Ajax? What happened to the old robotic welders and precision machines?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Trubia factory had 14m Euro of new equipment for Spain's new 8x8 in 2020, its a bit strange they are buying new and not using the equipment they had used on Ajax? What happened to the old robotic welders and precision machines?
If I understand you properly, it's a good thing that they're not using the kit they built Ajax with. One could infer that the reason for the 2020 investment was because of the performance of the kit used to build Ajax.

Conjecture on my part, but not unreasoned.
 

Majorpain

War Hero
If I understand you properly, it's a good thing that they're not using the kit they built Ajax with. One could infer that the reason for the 2020 investment was because of the performance of the kit used to build Ajax.

Conjecture on my part, but not unreasoned.
One of life's mysteries, like why GD aren't using Ajax as a base for US MPF any more.
 
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Of course a safer strategy would be to pay the company to deliver from their own proven working plants with all the experience personnel, equipment and buildings rather than having to buy it in/relocate at very high cost.

Also more likely to make future upgrades easier and less stressful.

I take the points on:
- security of supply but unless export orders are won it will close
- British jobs (and taxes feeding back into the economy) but there are other offsets that could do that and end up giving more secure jobs

It only makes the vehicle more expensive, which means less purchased and less well defended U.K. (and that’s a cycle that continues)
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Same for the National Shipbuilding Strategy but that’s another thread.

Is there a National AFV Building Strategy?

I’ll get my 432…
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
In the Aussy Land 400 Phase 3 (IFV) procurement the CV90 was apparently cut due to cost. I wonder if that was partly tied into what licensing plan was offered. The AJAX according to the article was "Not fit for purpose"
Not fit for purpose due to limited troop capacity. Ironic given it’s size.
 
What I love about this, is both this and the Ajax thread are damn near identical, and posts can be freely interchanged.

What does that tell you about the AFV situation?

I still maintain there is hope. We can claw out of this, and actually end up in a better place.
I just hope those in power can grip the situation, and seize this chance.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
What I love about this, is both this and the Ajax thread are damn near identical, and posts can be freely interchanged.

What does that tell you about the AFV situation?

I still maintain there is hope. We can claw out of this, and actually end up in a better place.
I just hope those in power can grip the situation, and seize this chance.
I suspect that things will only change when things go wrong.

Right now, the MSM are busy stoking artificial furies over Boris parties.

Real news be damned.
 

LD17

MIA
Just as @Listy said, I could put this in either thread but from the Tank Museum…
What might have been…
1642264256935.png
 

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