CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

Ah so now were back to AJAX is crap because the Russian light Armour with a huge gun can kill it.

AJAX crap because tank guns kill it
Russian light armour with big gun not crap even though AJAX can kill it with less than big tank gun

Im not sure im able to square that particular logic circle

In the same vein - AJAX shit because looks like tank but not enough armour - Russian AFV not shite because it looks like Tank but not enough armour

And whilst were at it
Ajax shit because people will try to use as MBT - as its big with big gun and isnt protected well enough to do that
Sprut not shit because despite looking like, having a bfo gun and insufficient armour what - it wont be targeted by MBTs (AJAX will) nor used as an MBT because tank (Ajax will) will not die instantly the moment its looked at by an MBT (Ajax will).

Seems to me the analysis is lighter than MBT AFV are good unless its UK designed

From googling it seems the protection is limited to small arms and splinters. Thus its now down to who sees who first (and can get the first round hit. I have a hunch who will win that one.
 
From googling it seems the protection is limited to small arms and splinters. Thus its now down to who sees who first (and can get the first round hit. I have a hunch who will win that one.
Which makes perfect sense

I just dont understand how vehicle A is crap because vehicle B can kill it, but Vehicle B is not crap even though vehicle A can kill it (with a smaller gun)

I can think of lots of reasons why A may be crap and not B - but that particular metric seems flawed
 
I am not a big fan of AJAX at the minute, but when all the problems are ironed out and the troops can use its systems effectively, it will be a great asset. Sat there, it will know somethings coming towards it, before it sees it and the WASAD will identify any movement the gunner might not pick up so should get a round away as soon as anything breaks cover or run if needs be.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
From googling it seems the protection is limited to small arms and splinters. Thus its now down to who sees who first (and can get the first round hit. I have a hunch who will win that one.

And we’re back to the issue that befell the RAC in WWII, all well and good seeing the other chap armed with your 40mm gun, as long as the other chap doesn’t rather unsportingly outrange and overmatch you with his 75/88mm gun.

’you need a gun, a big gun - it’s no good getting off the first shot if all you do is watch it bounce off the other guys thick hide’


Some US Officer designing the M1 who got blown out the turret hatch of his M4 in 1944 after watching the two rounds he got off first bounce off a German tank.

and against a 125mm sabot round, an AJAX is effectively unarmored out to any conceivable battle range.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
So is pretty much any other reconnaissance vehicle.

And the we have it, reconnaissance vehicle.
but we have both the Army, and people here, calling it a medium tank and expecting it to provide the tank muscle to military formations, and happily stating it can actively seek to get in fights with proper MBTs.
 

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
And we’re back to the issue that befell the RAC in WWII, all well and good seeing the other chap armed with your 40mm gun, as long as the other chap doesn’t rather unsportingly outrange and overmatch you with his 75/88mm gun.

’you need a gun, a big gun - it’s no good getting off the first shot if all you do is watch it bounce off the other guys thick hide’

Some US Officer designing the M1 who got blown out the turret hatch of his M4 in 1944 after watching the two rounds he got off first bounce off a German tank.

and against a 125mm sabot round, an AJAX is effectively unarmored out to any conceivable battle range.
Thank you for The Sprut. Designed from the 1980’s but & 25 in service. Wonder why?
I really enjoyed the footage of what happens when they fire the main armament. Be like a fairground ride inside for the crew. Wracking stresses will crack the hulls.
And I love the tracks.
I love this vehicle, everything about it is terrible. I’m off to study it, so thank you.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Thank you for The Sprut. Designed from the 1980’s but & 25 in service. Wonder why?
I really enjoyed the footage of what happens when they fire the main armament. Be like a fairground ride inside for the crew. Wracking stresses will crack the hulls.
And I love the tracks.
I love this vehicle, everything about it is terrible. I’m off to study it, so thank you.

BMD’s with a 100mm are available if you prefer,
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Ignoring your ham-fisted use of history, I'd point out that the Sprut is effectively unarmored out to any conceivable battle range against Ajax.
Ah, so the 40mm CTA wundergat now outranges the standard 125mm Russian tank gun!
it’s truly an amazing gun! Maybe they should fit it into CR2!

Now, what’s the cunning plan if a T72 you are watching over on yonder hill throws an AT-11 up the spout and has at you from 5,000m?
 
Ah, so the 40mm CTA wundergat now outranges the standard 125mm Russian tank gun!
it’s truly an amazing gun! Maybe they should fit it into CR2!

Do you actually read English? Because that's clearly not what I said. Or is this an example of you reading my post with an Irish accent and it somehow changes the meaning of the words?
 

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
BMD’s with a 100mm are available if you prefer,
Aaaand the Sprut catches fire after a parade!
What a turkey it is.
This thread is 561 pages long and I reckon much of that is people telling you why you are wrong and you not learning from it.
Why are there only 24 of your wunderwaffe - How much room is there inside that 2 man turret, complete with a 125mm gun with autoloader and 40 rounds for the crew? How do they live and fight in that environment (do you need an answer?).
there’s reasons why the Sherman and not King Tiger won the war.

And- for bragging rights - the French once had a light tank with a big gun, theirs was the AMX-13. I knocked the turret off one on Hohne ranges using Shush- Prac at @ 900m. Yes, I blew the turret off it with a lump of concrete. Grr!
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Aaaand the Sprut catches fire after a parade!
What a turkey it is.
This thread is 561 pages long and I reckon much of that is people telling you why you are wrong and you not learning from it.
Why are there only 24 of your wunderwaffe - How much room is there inside that 2 man turret, complete with a 125mm gun with autoloader and 40 rounds for the crew? How do they live and fight in that environment (do you need an answer?).
there’s reasons why the Sherman and not King Tiger won the war.

And- for bragging rights - the French once had a light tank with a big gun, theirs was the AMX-13. I knocked the turret off one on Hohne ranges using Shush- Prac at @ 900m. Yes, I blew the turret off it with a lump of concrete. Grr!

if only the a Russians stopped improving their gear!


 
Last edited:

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
Ah, so the 40mm CTA wundergat now outranges the standard 125mm Russian tank gun!
it’s truly an amazing gun! Maybe they should fit it into CR2!

Now, what’s the cunning plan if a T72 you are watching over on yonder hill throws an AT-11 up the spout and has at you from 5,000m?
I’m in the mood for bragging : Hohne ranges 1986. HESH, range 9999m according to the laser rangefinder. First round kill of big Hessian Square confirmed by the tower. Took forever for the round to land but my commander bought a slab for the troop to celebrate that night.
 

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
if only the a Russians stopped improving their gear.


Thanks, I watched that. I see it so much differently than you do. As 1 example: when they fire the main gun whilst crossing the river I bet the crew inside are praying and screaming for their mothers, because it’s what I’d be doing.
As for improvements, no. Look closely at the interior of the vehicle that look new to you?
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
Ah, so the 40mm CTA wundergat now outranges the standard 125mm Russian tank gun!

If Listy had said that CTA40 outranged the 125mm gun, you'd look, y'know, clever and amazing and everyone would be smitten with admiration for your brilliance.

But since that's got the square root of fµck-all to do with what he said, it leaves me wondering whether you're too dull-witted to understand what's said, or so dishonest you're just making stuff up to try - and fail - to look as if you've got a clue (when in fact, you couldn't get a clue even if you were standing in a field of randy clues, during clue breeding season, generously smeared with clue musk, and making the clue mating call...)

Since the Sprut is so totes amazeballs, what's the immunity range where its mighty armoured hull will keep 40mm CTA APFSDS out?

Oh, "it gets hit, it dies". But that's okay because the Sprut's got much better sensors and fire control.... oh, wait.

Yep, maybe this isn't working out quite as well as Russia Today would like you to believe.

Still, there's always missiles if the gun's not going to win the day...

 
Thanks, I watched that. I see it so much differently than you do. As 1 example: when they fire the main gun whilst crossing the river I bet the crew inside are praying and screaming for their mothers, because it’s what I’d be doing.
As for improvements, no. Look closely at the interior of the vehicle that look new to you?
Jeez

the 2nd round must be delayed by the crews need to stop there eyrballs bouncing enough to use the sights
 
If Listy had said that CTA40 outranged the 125mm gun, you'd look, y'know, clever and amazing and everyone would be smitten with admiration for your brilliance.

But since that's got the square root of fµck-all to do with what he said, it leaves me wondering whether you're too dull-witted to understand what's said, or so dishonest you're just making stuff up to try - and fail - to look as if you've got a clue (when in fact, you couldn't get a clue even if you were standing in a field of randy clues, during clue breeding season, generously smeared with clue musk, and making the clue mating call...)

Since the Sprut is so totes amazeballs, what's the immunity range where its mighty armoured hull will keep 40mm CTA APFSDS out?

Oh, "it gets hit, it dies". But that's okay because the Sprut's got much better sensors and fire control.... oh, wait.

Yep, maybe this isn't working out quite as well as Russia Today would like you to believe.

Still, there's always missiles if the gun's not going to win the day...


I'm stealing that bit about the clue. I may have to use it more.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm stealing that bit about the clue. I may have to use it more.
It's not mine - goes all the way back to Usenet days a quarter-century ago. But it did seem remarkably applicable...
 

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