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CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I wonder what brought this piece of kit into mind, helping people to climb up onto tanks(big green things)

 

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
Well despite donkies years of looking I've never found mention of Rubber tree's in the specs for CVRT...

I can only state what I can see. So that's why I've come to that conclusion. Of course, look at it this way, you've kept your secrets. :safe: . just need to make sure you keep TND off site!
I’m sure you know: legend has it that it was written into the spec’s for CVR(T)’s predecessor Saladin, as a lesson painfully learned from the Japanese in Malaya and proved very useful. “Must be able to fit between rubber trees in a plantation”. I could almost swear that Malaysians have told me that, to cheer up the Matsele. Maybe it was Alvis who told me!
But now that I’ve been self-outed as a Walt, these things are all beyond my Ken. I don’t even know what TND is and I suspect bluffing that it’s a 70’s Prog Band, like ELO, wouldn’t even convince a naval aviator.
 
I’m sure you know: legend has it that it was written into the spec’s for CVR(T)’s predecessor Saladin, as a lesson painfully learned from the Japanese in Malaya and proved very useful. “Must be able to fit between rubber trees in a plantation”. I could almost swear that Malaysians have told me that, to cheer up the Matsele. Maybe it was Alvis who told me!
But now that I’ve been self-outed as a Walt, these things are all beyond my Ken. I don’t even know what TND is and I suspect bluffing that it’s a 70’s Prog Band, like ELO, wouldn’t even convince a naval aviator.
Back in 1984 we finished up an exercise and the Brigadier chastised us for opening fire at more than 400m, as someone he knew told him WW2 engagement ranges were 4-600 m. Cheers brigadier, we can get rid of these lasers and computers etc then?
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Back in 1984 we finished up an exercise and the Brigadier chastised us for opening fire at more than 400m, as someone he knew told him WW2 engagement ranges were 4-600 m. Cheers brigadier, we can get rid of these lasers and computers etc then?
Unless you were re-enacting the Battle of the Bulge I suggest the Brig was probably taking the piss!(Unless he was a Gunner of course:) )
 

Bardeyai

Old-Salt
Back in 1984 we finished up an exercise and the Brigadier chastised us for opening fire at more than 400m, as someone he knew told him WW2 engagement ranges were 4-600 m. Cheers brigadier, we can get rid of these lasers and computers etc then?
You should have escorted him to the ranges at Hohne etc. And pointed out the big white square at 800m (1100m?) for boresighting the main armament. Then saluted smartly and left him to chew through where he might have gone wrong.
 

tiv

LE
I’m sure you know: legend has it that it was written into the spec’s for CVR(T)’s predecessor Saladin, as a lesson painfully learned from the Japanese in Malaya and proved very useful. “Must be able to fit between rubber trees in a plantation”. I could almost swear that Malaysians have told me that, to cheer up the Matsele. Maybe it was Alvis who told me!
But now that I’ve been self-outed as a Walt, these things are all beyond my Ken. I don’t even know what TND is and I suspect bluffing that it’s a 70’s Prog Band, like ELO, wouldn’t even convince a naval aviator.
This is mentioned in Alvis Saracen Family by Bill Munro. He says that two factors decided the overall dimensions of the Saracen, it had to be able to pass between the rubber trees in Malaya and carry a standard stretcher. The Saracen was urgently required for patroling the rubber plantations and it took precedence over the Saladin.
 
Unless you were re-enacting the Battle of the Bulge I suggest the Brig was probably taking the piss!(Unless he was a Gunner of course:) )
Nah, he was deadly serious. We had a squadron of tanks and three companies of infantry deploying from 4 Tonners with the sides off. The infantry proceeded to fire and manoeuvre a company at a time, more like Napoleonic than the Battle of the Bulge. His name was Willie Rouse and was the hard boiled egg eating champion of the UK.
 
I’m sure you know: legend has it that it was written into the spec’s for CVR(T)’s predecessor Saladin, as a lesson painfully learned from the Japanese in Malaya and proved very useful. “Must be able to fit between rubber trees in a plantation”. I could almost swear that Malaysians have told me that, to cheer up the Matsele. Maybe it was Alvis who told me!

I am aware of that.
I also have been through pretty much every document I can find leading to the CVR(T), all the GSOR's and all the little wizards that go with it.
I also have had talks to others who are in a similar boat.

Not once have we seen mention of Malaya or rubber trees. If memory serves the closest, and mentioned only in one document which was not even a specific requirements list, more an introduction letter from a Senior officer, was the phrase '...for trying colonial conditions.'
 
I am aware of that.
I also have been through pretty much every document I can find leading to the CVR(T), all the GSOR's and all the little wizards that go with it.
I also have had talks to others who are in a similar boat.

Not once have we seen mention of Malaya or rubber trees. If memory serves the closest, and mentioned only in one document which was not even a specific requirements list, more an introduction letter from a Senior officer, was the phrase '...for trying colonial conditions.'
Didn’t that also mean that they could fit in C130 as a side effect
 
Didn’t that also mean that they could fit in C130 as a side effect

Well at the time we had the Beverly. Try as I might I've been unable to find out how wide the tracks on the Beverly were. Now that may well have had an impact on the APAFV and APARV projects that was sort of both an antecedent and sibling of the AVR project (and was murdered/absorbed by the AVR... Look its a complicated family tree).
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Well at the time we had the Beverly. Try as I might I've been unable to find out how wide the tracks on the Beverly were. Now that may well have had an impact on the APAFV and APARV projects that was sort of both an antecedent and sibling of the AVR project (and was murdered/absorbed by the AVR... Look its a complicated family tree).
Look, if FRES can... actually, as you were.
 
So what happens about the Russian VDV intervention forces Sprut light tanks with a 125mm gun, or their BMD-4 IFVs with a 100mm gun instead of their T-72B3’s?
Will we ask for the gentlemanski agreement to be extended to cover them too?

Ah so now were back to AJAX is crap because the Russian light Armour with a huge gun can kill it.

AJAX crap because tank guns kill it
Russian light armour with big gun not crap even though AJAX can kill it with less than big tank gun

Im not sure im able to square that particular logic circle

In the same vein - AJAX shit because looks like tank but not enough armour - Russian AFV not shite because it looks like Tank but not enough armour

And whilst were at it
Ajax shit because people will try to use as MBT - as its big with big gun and isnt protected well enough to do that
Sprut not shit because despite looking like, having a bfo gun and insufficient armour what - it wont be targeted by MBTs (AJAX will) nor used as an MBT because tank (Ajax will) will not die instantly the moment its looked at by an MBT (Ajax will).

Seems to me the analysis is lighter than MBT AFV are good unless its UK designed
 

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