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CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

I would encourage everyone to read that paper which is short (3 pages and not too many big words), unemotional and directly to the point. Once read, read between the lines.

For example
Hoorah a decision.

Well it lasted five years

And another five

Then only two years

And another three

Savage stuff. I guess "use the MIVs to replace Warrior and forget Strike" is the new "use Ajax to replace Warrior, and fill up Strike with MIVs"
 
What's the protection levels of warrior Vs Boxer ? An A better than B will do.

I've got a suspicion that Warrior will do better in those stakes with all its add ons.
 
What's the protection levels of warrior Vs Boxer ? An A better than B will do.

I've got a suspicion that Warrior will do better in those stakes with all its add ons.

Warrior generally has greater capacity to carry appliqué armour without loosing too much mobility.

It’s all swings and roundabouts.


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Warrior generally has greater capacity to carry appliqué armour without loosing too much mobility.

It’s all swings and roundabouts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah , so mobility under fire is what it should be.
Im a lot faster going across a field on a scrambler motorbike than most tracked or wheeled vehicles, but I wouldn't be doing it under a hail of rockets, bombs or bullets.
Warrior with TES please, and I don't care if its Rarden. CTA would of course, be much nicer.
 
Ah , so mobility under fire is what it should be.
Im a lot faster going across a field on a scrambler motorbike than most tracked or wheeled vehicles, but I wouldn't be doing it under a hail of rockets, bombs or bullets.
Warrior with TES please, and I don't care if its Rarden. CTA would of course, be much nicer.

The other thing is, probability of detection and hit is directly proportional to silhouette size - take a look at Boxer with a turret...




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The other thing is, probability of detection and hit is directly proportional to silhouette size - take a look at Boxer with a turret...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Would be good to a UK version of that photo to include Chally 2, Warrior, Ajax, Scorpion and Boxer.

ETA Still think Boxer will stick out like a bulldog’s bollocks though.
For Scorpion read Scimitar. Had a grey moment there.
 
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I think If i was off to war and looking at being on the wrong end of direct fire / playing tag with opposing Armour.
Then id want warrior its Smaller and seems to be better protected against direct fire (going by size vs weight) and for the sake of like for like comparison assuming the same shooty bangy thing on top of both


If i was being sent to chase insurgents round Mali - id feel better in Boxer, more comfertable -ride - newer and thus with the emphasis on IEDs likely much improved in terms of mine protection.

Thats my two penneth based on no more than gut feeling.

I do think APC/IFVs are getting too big and complex and thus expensive and unaffordable.

Id rather 8 Battalions on something like Griffon / Bushmaster / Eagle 6x6 as a "Saxon" replacement complementing warrior than 4 on Boxer .

Of course from a personal perspective id prefer to be in a boxer


edit for monged bit
 
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I think If i was off to war and looking at being on the wrong end of direct fire / playing tag with opposing Armour.
Then id want warrior its Smaller and seems to be better protected against direct fire (going by size vs weight) and for the sake of like for like comparison assuming the same shooty bangy thing on top of both


If i was being sent to chase insurgents round Mali - id feel better in Boxer, more comfertable -ride - newer and thus with the emphasis on IEDs likely much improved in terms of mine protection.

Thats my two penneth based on no more than gut feeling.

I do think APC/IFVs are getting too big and complex and thus expensive and unaffordable.

Id rather 8 Battalions on something like Griffon / Bushmaster / Eagle 6x6 as a "Saxon" replacement complementing warrior than 4 on Boxer .

Of course from a personal perspective id prefer to be in a boxer


edit for monged bit

Regarding Griffon, 2 are currently doing hot/dusty trials in Djibouti

1601051918357.png


Regarding going around places like Mali in a vehicle like the Boxer, make sure you have a very large sum of money ready for maintenance. That sort of environment can swallow maintenance budgets of large and heavy AFVs like very few others.
 
That defence committee has published all the evidence it's received:
Seems a bit off that “all the evidence received“ is eight documents, only one of which is from a directly involved party. of the remainder, one from a think tank, two are collaborations from academics (including your good self, if I’m not mistaken) one journalist and two private citizens (or three if you count the guy trying to sell his vehicle concepts*)

Where are General Dynamics or BAEsystems? Are the Army not contributing?

* Interesting stuff, although perhaps a trifle old-fashioned looking.
 

TamH70

MIA
The other thing is, probability of detection and hit is directly proportional to silhouette size - take a look at Boxer with a turret...




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Oh, oh, me sir! Is it the monstrosity that doesn't have a 120mm Rheinmetall L/44 smoothbore cannon at the pointy end of the turret, yet is bigger than the one that does?

How the heck are they going to hide that?
 
Oh, oh, me sir! Is it the monstrosity that doesn't have a 120mm Rheinmetall L/44 smoothbore cannon at the pointy end of the turret, yet is bigger than the one that does?

How the heck are they going to hide that?
Consultations are under way with David Copperfield.
 
Oh, oh, me sir! Is it the monstrosity that doesn't have a 120mm Rheinmetall L/44 smoothbore cannon at the pointy end of the turret, yet is bigger than the one that does?

How the heck are they going to hide that?
At DES about 2 years back I was looking at Ajax and Boxer and the size of the damned things. I asked one of the demonstrators if these were both medium armour (I was supposedly an SME for a bunch of RAF guys being shown around) as they were both substantially bigger than the Black Knight CR2 - he had the grace to look slightly embarresed when he confirmed my comment.
Boxer next to CR2 was mahoosive - there was a Scimitar there too. Compared to a Boxer it was like me parking my MX-5 next to a National Express Coach.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
Canister was widely used in the PTO. the US 37mm anti-tank gun had it, and it was rather liked for the ability to make an area of Jungle (and the Japanese) go away. Equally, when the Japanese broke and went all BANZAI! it tended to stop those shenanigans dead.
I've no data on if the round was used by Stuarts (effectively the same gun), but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine tank crews getting some from an ammo dump.

The Person you'd need to pester for an answer would be @California_Tanker He's got better info on US tanks.
The Australians made a use of it in Vietnam in their Centurions. A non fiction book called Delta Four by Gary McKay about Delta Coy, 4RAR mentions its use. It has an account of a battle when the company ran head long into a bunker system that was part of an NVA RHQ. Luckily they had just been inserted by APC's supported Centurions which were called back in to support them. Canister rounds, Coax and pulling donuts on the roofs of bunkers were all apparently quite effective.
 

TamH70

MIA
Done since the beginning of the tank. See what the legal types would say about it now.

They moaned like heck about it when US Abrams tanks did it to defence positions in Kuwait and Iraq during that unpleasantness.
 
At DES about 2 years back I was looking at Ajax and Boxer and the size of the damned things. I asked one of the demonstrators if these were both medium armour (I was supposedly an SME for a bunch of RAF guys being shown around) as they were both substantially bigger than the Black Knight CR2 - he had the grace to look slightly embarresed when he confirmed my comment.
Boxer next to CR2 was mahoosive - there was a Scimitar there too. Compared to a Boxer it was like me parking my MX-5 next to a National Express Coach.

soon barns will be able to hide behind armour
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
Done since the beginning of the tank. See what the legal types would say about it now.
I think it was also at the end of this battle they used a claymore on a pole to deal with an officer who refused their invitation (and grenades) to come out. I guess it was kind of being employed in its intended role, but I guess the legal types weren't available for comment at the time.
 
I think it was also at the end of this battle they used a claymore on a pole to deal with an officer who refused their invitation (and grenades) to come out. I guess it was kind of being employed in its intended role, but I guess the legal types weren't available for comment at the time.

Claymore on a pole? Was this some sort of suicide bomb?
 

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