CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

Boxy

GCM
“Same basic size, just longer”...then they’re not the same basic size then, one is longer...
 
“Same basic size, just longer”...then they’re not the same basic size then, one is longer...
Plus 10mm wider.
 
When Chieftain got Togs it ended up with an armoured cable in a place which would take the skin off your knuckles if you manually elevated. I was on a DRE trial and their team leader asked if his guys could get in the tanks as they had never been in one. The green string holding the cable back was dutifully cut and the boffins got their first loaders rash, wee souls.
I asked them what their impression of being in a tank was and they all commented on the noise and how uncomfortable it was-I pointed out that we were on a bloody airfield and nothing was being fired.
After a full career in the Army I decided to join the RAF reserves - check in not dig in.

As part of our course we got to visit IWM Duxford and the rest of the course got an introduction to armour, having a chance to climb all over the Russian bits of kit.
I was asked if I had any input: My first was to ask the guy showing us around his panzer rash. Armour bites and humans come off second best - I recounted a tale of a (IIRC) a scimitar having an RTA where the lower jaw of the driver came off second best in an interaction with the front of his hatch. Some of the class looked in utter horror.
Other points made was how cramped the Sov stuff was - and the lack of safety belts. I pointed out that just being in an armoured vehicle as it drove around was knackering - arriving at the battle in a bit of Sov kit you would be in clip state.


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I’ll raise you two more turrets covering the rear arc with high elevation capability
There was something like that originally on the Marder IFV - a remote control 7.62mm MG.

I have had a quick look for images, but can’t seem to find any. The only reason I remember is a model in 1/72 of one I built as a kid MANY years ago.


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Londo

LE
There was something like that originally on the Marder IFV - a remote control 7.62mm MG.

I have had a quick look for images, but can’t seem to find any. The only reason I remember is a model in 1/72 of one I built as a kid MANY years ago.


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IIRC The rear MG was aimed and controlled by a TV camera . As it was rearward facing during vehicle travel this made the MG gunner feel quite sick at times so this gun was discontinued in use .
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
There was something like that originally on the Marder IFV - a remote control 7.62mm MG.

I have had a quick look for images, but can’t seem to find any. The only reason I remember is a model in 1/72 of one I built as a kid MANY years ago.
Was definitely there mid-1980s (in real life and on the Tamiya 1/35 kits). Not sure when it disappeared; presumably they needed the weight/space for something more useful.
 
After a full career in the Army I decided to join the RAF reserves - check in not dig in.

As part of our course we got to visit IWM Duxford and the rest of the course got an introduction to armour, having a chance to climb all over the Russian bits of kit.
I was asked if I had any input: My first was to ask the guy showing us around his panzer rash. Armour bites and humans come off second best - I recounted a tale of a (IIRC) a scimitar having an RTA where the lower jaw of the driver came off second best in an interaction with the front of his hatch. Some of the class looked in utter horror.
Other points made was how cramped the Sov stuff was - and the lack of safety belts. I pointed out that just being in an armoured vehicle as it drove around was knackering - arriving at the battle in a bit of Sov kit you would be in clip state.


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to be fair to the Russians, it wasn’t as cramped for a Russian tanker as a western chap.
you had to be a shortass to get posted to tanks in Russia, under 5’ 7”
 
Was definitely there mid-1980s (in real life and on the Tamiya 1/35 kits). Not sure when it disappeared; presumably they needed the weight/space for something more useful.
Around about the 1A3....early-mid 90s?
 
Was definitely there mid-1980s (in real life and on the Tamiya 1/35 kits). Not sure when it disappeared; presumably they needed the weight/space for something more useful.
I've got some books with photos of it. One of the books mentions it, and just says that it was present in the original version but later removed.

They have pictures of Marder 1 with the extra MG, and Marder 1A3 without.

As noted by @Cold_Collation , the books list the 1A3 version as "all earlier Marders are being upgraded to this standard with improved armour and new roof hatch arrangement".

The 1A1, 1A1A, and 1A2 were just upgrades to the 20mm gun feed, night vision equipment, and suspension changes.
 
Was definitely there mid-1980s (in real life and on the Tamiya 1/35 kits). Not sure when it disappeared; presumably they needed the weight/space for something more useful.
The MICV-80 originally had a pair of domed sub turrets on the top of the rear hull with machine guns in. That way two of the infantry could stand up and offer suppressive fire from under armour.
They were removed when DINF reassessed the need for NBC protection, and stated that Infantry didn't need to so much protection, and could do the same job with a hatch and small arms. So it changed (If memory is correct, I'd have to go look it up), to a pair of slit hatches on either side of the roof.
 
It's the Austrian commander and the mix of European forces that made me giggle.
Can't recall if it's happened before.
Only
EUFOR Chad/CAR which had >4,000 troops
Operation Artemis which had 1,400 troops
EUFOR RD Congo which had 2,300 troops
EUTM Somalia with 200 troops
EUTM Mali with 1000 troops

of course for some reason the U.K. military and Government forget that for example they have had troops serving in Mali with EUTM Mali since 2013 and they continue to do so

This makes me wonder . . . .

"As of March 2019, the total force of EUFOR are at [only!!] 600 troops from 20 countries, including EU member states and non-EU "Troop Contributing Countries" (TCC) are present within EUFOR (Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Chile, Czech Republic, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, North Macedonia, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Turkey, and the United Kingdom)". [WIKI].

Further reading (and videos !!) . . .

The foreign forces in Bosnia (and Kosovo) have been progressively drawn down over time since IFOR and KFOR were established
 
This makes me wonder . . . .

"As of March 2019, the total force of EUFOR are at [only!!] 600 troops from 20 countries, including EU member states and non-EU "Troop Contributing Countries" (TCC) are present within EUFOR (Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Chile, Czech Republic, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, North Macedonia, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Turkey, and the United Kingdom)". [WIKI].

Further reading (and videos !!) . . .

The foreign forces in Bosnia (and Kosovo) have been progressively drawn down over time since IFOR and KFOR were established
Yes I fully appreciate that. I was based at HQ MND(SW), within BLMF, 1996-97, during which time it transitioned from IFOR to SFOR. ( . . . . My son served with/was attached to, the Italian Carabinieri as part of KFOR).

[DRIFT]

My post was intended to raise a number of points . . .

- 600 troops, from 20 countries = only 30 troops from any one country on average.

- what capability - cohesion, if any - does that provide ?!

- for the WHOLE of BiH, 600 troops does not even constitute a "road bump" !!

- it/when, it does all "kick-off" again, have they got enough phone lines, for the troops to (all telephone at the same time, and) notify their 20 different countries ?! ;) .

- Is there an RA contingent, that takes up a significant part of every days' "O" Group, briefing, explaining from where/to where/when/for how long . . . they will deploy/move the 105mm Light Gun?! :) .

[/DRIFT]
 
Last edited:
Only
EUFOR Chad/CAR which had >4,000 troops
Operation Artemis which had 1,400 troops
EUFOR RD Congo which had 2,300 troops
EUTM Somalia with 200 troops
EUTM Mali with 1000 troops

of course for some reason the U.K. military and Government forget that for example they have had troops serving in Mali with EUTM Mali since 2013 and they continue to do so


The foreign forces in Bosnia (and Kosovo) have been progressively drawn down over time since IFOR and KFOR were established
The giggle was about the last Austrian who had command over a mixed bag of troops from EU countries running around the Balkans in the early 40s. As daft as it might seem, symbology means a lot out there.
 
The giggle was about the last Austrian who had command over a mixed bag of troops from EU countries running around the Balkans in the early 40s. As daft as it might seem, symbology means a lot out there.
 
I'm not sure he qualifies, certainly not for the 1930-45 timeframe I was referring to.
 

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