CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

How else are the infantry there? Did they walk?


In a situation so close you can’t traverse your turret? Some, but not as much as you might think.
It's not so close you can't swing your turret. Just that a shorter gun might not stick around the corner, be less to think about as you move along.

The IFVs could be at the Zulu muster, not having the same organic protection.

A urban optimised tank could also provide uav control and a c2 capability for infantry. Ie a strong tx radio or rebro for local PRR.
 
It's not so close you can't swing your turret. Just that a shorter gun might not stick around the corner, be less to think about as you move along.
The street fighter experiment puts a camera on the barrel so the crew can look around the corner. For the sake of a small, if extant at all, advantage in urban fighting you’d discard the anti-armour performance?
The IFVs could be at the Zulu muster, not having the same organic protection.
sounds like an argument for developing IFVs with better protection more than an MBT with more specialised armament?
A urban optimised tank could also provide uav control and a c2 capability for infantry. Ie a strong tx radio or rebro for local PRR.
Something you could do with a regular MBT or IFV if you wanted?
UAV control or C2 would be better suited to an IFV as that way it does not distract the vehicle crew from their tasks. Automatic systems could be fitted to any vehicle.
 
Fair enough.

The IDF have Namer APC now. Converted Makava hulls, no turret.

IMHO there is a vacancy for an optimised urban combat vehicle. And I think a 120mm rifle may be a specialist weapon in this environment where other smaller calibres could deliver more effective fire.
 
Last edited:

Hellfire on a medium-weight chassis - 6 years ago.

Who’d have thunk it, eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TamH70

MIA
I don't personally think that we'll ever get something like the BMPT-Terminator 2 as the political backing for the doctrine for its use would never fly with the public. That thing is designed and built to twat lots of people in an urban environment with great effectiveness extremely quickly, and ballocks to your collateral damage.

I don't see us ever having politicians who would ever sanction a 4th (or was it 5th, things are tricky in that region) Battle of Grozny-type mullering of an entire city.
 
I don't personally think that we'll ever get something like the BMPT-Terminator 2 as the political backing for the doctrine for its use would never fly with the public. That thing is designed and built to twat lots of people in an urban environment with great effectiveness extremely quickly, and ballocks to your collateral damage.

I don't see us ever having politicians who would ever sanction a 4th (or was it 5th, things are tricky in that region) Battle of Grozny-type mullering of an entire city.
hmmmm... Comrade General, they Chechens fight tough in the city!

okie dokie, surround the city with tube and rocket artillery, it’s a grid square at a time free fire zone.

03A4B4E1-B951-4528-9498-C0A1AA9ACF40.jpeg

that’s the Russian way, a tough nut? You are not using a big enough hammer.
 
I don't personally think that we'll ever get something like the BMPT-Terminator 2 as the political backing for the doctrine for its use would never fly with the public. That thing is designed and built to twat lots of people in an urban environment with great effectiveness extremely quickly, and ballocks to your collateral damage.

I don't see us ever having politicians who would ever sanction a 4th (or was it 5th, things are tricky in that region) Battle of Grozny-type mullering of an entire city.
Surely a precise 30mm is better than a 120mm. And for a group rushing up a short road, a minigun is more effective than a 7.62 coax.

I believe the yanks were issuing armoured vehicles with the Bradley crew M16s* as hand held lead hoses for just that purpose in Iraq.

Can't remember the designation. Auto only, open bolt and no stock. Or sights iirc.
 
Surely a precise 30mm is better than a 120mm. And for a group rushing up a short road, a minigun is more effective than a 7.62 coax.

I believe the yanks were issuing armoured vehicles with the Bradley crew M16s* as hand held lead hoses for just that purpose in Iraq.

Can't remember the designation. Auto only, open bolt and no stock. Or sights iirc.
Allied feedback from Afghanistan was that 25/30mm calibres were all but useless against mouseholing or reducing hardened structures (in this case, grape-drying huts) - Stryker Bns certainly appreciated 105mm HEP from their MGS, whilst those blessed with Leo2 or Abrams made use of HEAT-MP to great effect.

Whatever the solution, there’s not many people who can afford the luxury of bespoke urban AFVs when there’s not enough of the common-or-garden ones to go around...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TamH70

MIA
Surely a precise 30mm is better than a 120mm. And for a group rushing up a short road, a minigun is more effective than a 7.62 coax.

I believe the yanks were issuing armoured vehicles with the Bradley crew M16s* as hand held lead hoses for just that purpose in Iraq.

Can't remember the designation. Auto only, open bolt and no stock. Or sights iirc.
The port-firing version of the M16? Gun Jesus did a video on those, explaining what they were and how they were at the job intended for them, which made them pretty crap for using outside of the Bradley.


Plus the Russians don't just use the 30mm cannon - they use the 30mm grenade launcher and those BFO Ataka missiles at the same time. When I said mullering of an entire city, I wasn't exaggerating.
 
The port-firing version of the M16? Gun Jesus did a video on those, explaining what they were and how they were at the job intended for them, which made them pretty crap for using outside of the Bradley.
Regardless, they were in use in Baghdad and likely other locations in Iraq by US tankers and top covers before and after TELIC 10.
 
hmmmm... Comrade General, they Chechens fight tough in the city!

okie dokie, surround the city with tube and rocket artillery, it’s a grid square at a time free fire zone.

View attachment 445816
that’s the Russian way, a tough nut? You are not using a big enough hammer.
Stick to RAS - you might know something about that.
 
The view from our gunner friends is that it’s ok for static targets in a deliberately-planned strike - not so great in a fast-moving battle against moving targets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah. Im surprised at that, because its certainly been tested against moving tank targets. See 1.22

 
Ah. Im surprised at that, because its certainly been tested against moving tank targets. See 1.22

I’m not sure if that’s a ‘staged’ range video, but the problem with Exactor is that you need to know where your target is in precise detail - and where it is likely to be a few minutes later when the NLOS missile gets there. Once the missile starts its decent, nothing is going to stop it - and the operator has precious few seconds to orientate themselves to the ground and figure out where their target is before it stoves in. It’s very mandraulic, and relies on the operator understanding and anticipating their terrain to the extent that they know what they’re going to see before they even fire - ‘mission rehearsal’ is a feature of the CONEMP.

The Israelis also have some other tricks up their sleeves, in that they know their likely AO like their back yard (because it is...), and have mapped it in high fidelity - which makes technology like automatic image recognition and target correlation possible.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last I heard the BMP-Ts were getting 37mm guns, as per the ZSU23-4 SPAAGs.

But that may be out of date. The original design had a single 100mm gun, as per Russian IFVs, in lieu of the twin gun fit.
It's a 57mm gun, not a 37mm gun the Russians are thinking about using on the BMP-T Terminator. The reason for it is that they found that a 30mm gun doesn't have enough penetration into large concrete buildings. The gun needs to be able to fire at high elevations to deal with snipers and RPG crews on upper floors of tall buildings in urban areas.
 
(...) I don't see us ever having politicians who would ever sanction a 4th (or was it 5th, things are tricky in that region) Battle of Grozny-type mullering of an entire city.
Oh really? Here's what "kinder, gentler" Western air strikes have done to Mosul and Raqqa. With this in mind, a BMP-T type vehicle might start looking appealing to countries where the war is actually being fought, as opposed to the countries who can simply use air strikes to level entire city blocks and then go home.


In addition to marshaling thousands of Iraqi Army and Syrian rebel ground troops, the U.S.-led coalition embarked on a relentless campaign of airstrikes to dislodge the ISIS fighters. In the process, nearly all of the city of Raqqa and the Old City of Mosul were destroyed. More than a year later, they remain in ruins, and the possibility that they will be rebuilt remains in doubt.









 
Oh really? Here's what "kinder, gentler" Western air strikes have done to Mosul and Raqqa. With this in mind, a BMP-T type vehicle might start looking appealing to countries where the war is actually being fought, as opposed to the countries who can simply use air strikes to level entire city blocks and then go home.













Meh. Looks like Govan...
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top