CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

Namer is a beast! It's a heavy ifv. We haven't had the equivalent since the Ww2 kangaroo.
Oddly all the other heavy ifv wagons such as IDF Puma ( turret less M60) have a plethora of 7.62 gimpys not .50 cal
 
Huh, I learn. Seems like there are a number of variants and some were self powered, some hydraulic and some electric.

The smaller stuff is direct electric though and that’s where I was looking.


All things are relative. A rotary puts less thermal and mechanical load on weapon and ammunition than a single barrel gun for any given rate of fire. Using rotary at 600 rpm cyclic means you can have the same sustained rate than a single barrel gun but won’t need to change barrels.
Barrel change a doddle on revolver, less so on rotary. Swings and roundabouts, harm for a rotary can be a PITA. Higher log burden for rotary as well.

The barrel set on M61 a 30K life, when people are carrying 1200 RDS they feel the need to......brrrrrrrrp.

All gone in seconds.
 
Barrel change a doddle on revolver, less so on rotary. Swings and roundabouts, harm for a rotary can be a PITA. Higher log burden for rotary as well.

The barrel set on M61 a 30K life, when people are carrying 1200 RDS they feel the need to......brrrrrrrrp.

All gone in seconds.
The point of the rotary is that you don’t need to change barrels during use, as long as you keep the rate down.
If you can’t trust your crews to keep it in the sensible region, you can limit it.
 
I get the impression that the UK don't see the need for. 50 cal on a tank on account they have light cannon with the accompanying Warrior and its 30mm. Anything beyond 800m effective of the 7.62 or requiring a light AP/HE round is down to the Warriors.
I note that aside of m113, there is no equivalent that I'm aware of in the IDF.
It is quite possible that that is the thinking, but it does not seem to have held weight with the US (25mm on Bradley), France (25mm on VBCI), Korea (40mm on K21) or Japan, (35mm on Type 89), all of whom have a .50 on their tanks. Then again, there is Leopard, when Marder had 20mm, but even at that, I note that the Leo2A7+ comes with a 0.50.

Other than cost, is there any significant downside to bolting a .50 on top of a tank?
Israel have just released a Namer with a 30mm turret.
 
(...) Other than cost, is there any significant downside to bolting a .50 on top of a tank? (...)
If we're talking about having an RWS which can handle conventional machine guns, it's probably one of those decisions where if you pick the right RWS you can make up your mind about 7.62mm versus 12.7mm according to whatever circumstances you are operating in at the time and just change the MG. It's when you go for something bigger or more exotic that it becomes more difficult to change your mind later.
 
If we're talking about having an RWS which can handle conventional machine guns, it's probably one of those decisions where if you pick the right RWS you can make up your mind about 7.62mm versus 12.7mm according to whatever circumstances you are operating in at the time and just change the MG. It's when you go for something bigger or more exotic that it becomes more difficult to change your mind later.
Or Javelin :)
 
But we're disappearing down a rabbit hole. This all started with some misguided assertions from one individual that a 7.62mm co-ax is crap. Suddenly it's Gatlings, Javelins... it'll be shark with lasers next. And we'll probably be using them with an autoloader.

The sharks will also be: fitted with active protection; not fitted with active protection; have vectored thrust and therefore be able to fly round corners; not have vectored thrust and therefore be line-of-sight only; be faceted to make them stealthy; hypersonic; not built by the French/Germans/Yanks because the French/Germans/Yanks are crap (delete as appropriate); built by the French/Germans/Yanks because the French/Germans/Yanks know best/have the economies of scale/can offer an off-the-shelf solution/can offer a through-life upgrade package (delete as appropriate); be the best thing since sliced bread/unassailable/outdated before they reach service (delete as appropriate); not British and therefore unacceptable to the electorate; a project we instigated then dipped out of and need to dip back into again; weigh too much/be too large/draw too much power (delete or combine as appropriate)...

Then someone'll decide that the answer is instead a dolphin with a soft-kill capability (electrical kill/a spanner which inserts itself into the engine or undoes the tracks/expanding foam/a nice letter/hypnosis... again, delete as appropriate). Then someone will ask about killer whales fitted with thermobarics, because they once saw something on the internet or they were playing with themselves too much and started to hallucinate...

...meanwhile, we're trying to get to Main Gate a CR2 upgrade which may or may not (hopefully it will, but no firm decision yet...) have a new main gun - and, I suspect - gasp - a 7.62mm co-axial machine gun.

Enough already. Can we get back on thread?
 

napier

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
The Israelis do seem to produce some nice kit. I know it would upset some sections of our community ( like the labour party ) but I think we should buy more from them . Unless it can be made here of course .
They'd be happy to sell us the license to manufacture. We do use their ammo , electronics, drones and things wot go bang at long range.
 
Don t see a co-ax mg on this 'ere new turret.
Have I missed summat ?
Yep, I think so. It has a Chain Gun in the turret front.
 

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