CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

No, US use M829Ax family, which are DU - as opposed to German tungsten alloy rounds.


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But we could use either in the L55?
 
No reason why not. Hence @Gassing_Badgers's comment - we could have the best of both worlds.
Are time/pressure curves and charge size and composition all carefully calculated out and experimented with for APFSDS rounds, or can you just stuff in any old round that fits into the gun and not cause problems with wear, accuracy, and other issues?

Given how much rifle target shooters obsess over finding just the right projectile weight and powder type and charge for their rifles, I'm a little surprised if this isn't an issue for tank guns as well.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Could be one of the factors in the BAe/Rheinmetall tie-up.
Rhinemetall now have access to the BAE back catalogue, eg Chally derived Engineering vehicles etc, which I bet they are delighted with.

So with the leap over to an L55 coupled with Ch2 survivability puts us back at the top of the armoured food chain.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Bingo - the CR2 chassis gets Rheinmetall out of KMW’s shadow, and properly into the MBT market...

And as I’ve said before, if we want something before 2030, it’s going to be a CR2 with a new turret - not a leopard 3 (which doesn’t exist!)


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From what I understand the new turret offered by Rhinemetall is an all welded turret instead of a cast one
 
Are time/pressure curves and charge size and composition all carefully calculated out and experimented with for APFSDS rounds, or can you just stuff in any old round that fits into the gun and not cause problems with wear, accuracy, and other issues?

Given how much rifle target shooters obsess over finding just the right projectile weight and powder type and charge for their rifles, I'm a little surprised if this isn't an issue for tank guns as well.
I thought that as soon as I posted. Realistically, though, at risk of making myself look very silly, a tank gun's breech is rather sturdier than a rifle's. At the risk of looking very, very silly (nothing new there...), is it not just a case of calibrating the sighting system to account for the US round?
 
I thought that as soon as I posted. Realistically, though, at risk of making myself look very silly, a tank gun's breech is rather sturdier than a rifle's. At the risk of looking very, very silly (nothing new there...), is it not just a case of calibrating the sighting system to account for the US round?
Or possibly they may decide they have enough on their plates as it is with the new gun and decide to just stick with the standard ammunition for it for now.
 
Or possibly they may decide they have enough on their plates as it is with the new gun and decide to just stick with the standard ammunition for it for now.
Indeed. It wasn't initially my suggestion, however. But the point remains that we could end up with the best of both worlds.

Eventually, the decider may be commercial, in the sense that the Germans may lean on us to buy their rounds. It could also be environmental, in that we decide we no longer want to use DU.
 
Or possibly they may decide they have enough on their plates as it is with the new gun and decide to just stick with the standard ammunition for it for now.
If it uses DM63 it’s likely to be part of the whole RM package so I imagine the US round is only an option. RM say the ergonomics are surprisingly good and they still managed to fit in the map of the Moscow ring road without which no German tank turret is complete.
 
If it uses DM63 it’s likely to be part of the whole RM package so I imagine the US round is only an option. RM say the ergonomics are surprisingly good and they still managed to fit in the map of the Moscow ring road without which no German tank turret is complete.
That line from a German tanker briefing some of our Paras back in the Cold War days:

"You vill notiss zer Leopard hass very high suspension."

Followed quietly by:

"Next time, ve vill not get stuck in zer snow."
 
If it uses DM63 it’s likely to be part of the whole RM package so I imagine the US round is only an option. RM say the ergonomics are surprisingly good and they still managed to fit in the map of the Moscow ring road without which no German tank turret is complete.
So how is it set up? One assumes a bustle magazine per Leo2 and M1?
 

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