CGS:upgrading challenger and warrior.

British tanks made by a German owned company! I thought there were rules about defence companies being British and not foreign owned.

I know there have been joint ventures, mostly in aviation but to have a German company owning the major share in BAE combat vehicle division seems strange.

German firm to control UK tanks business

Is it wise for the government to allow this?
About as wise as putting military shipbuilding in Scotland?;)
 
Surely this means the UK will be buying Leopard 3 now regardless of what the Euros say?
You're making the rash assumption the UK intends to buy an MBT, but yes regardless of how good or bad it is compared with Abrams if we get anything now it will be a Leopard of some sort. This will at least be better than designing and building our own because 'only the UK can manufacture a suitable gold plated, best tank in the world' type vehicle.
 
British tanks made by a German owned company! I thought there were rules about defence companies being British and not foreign owned.

I know there have been joint ventures, mostly in aviation but to have a German company owning the major share in BAE combat vehicle division seems strange.

German firm to control UK tanks business

Is it wise for the government to allow this?
I suspect this has much to do with wanting to making Boxer a success in the market in competition with other vehicles.
 
LeClerc EuroTurret on CR2 is a great face saver for HMG

We're dealing with politicians remember.[/
You have ‘pointed it out’ certainly - I don’t remember any actual proof?
 
British tanks made by a German owned company! I thought there were rules about defence companies being British and not foreign owned.

I know there have been joint ventures, mostly in aviation but to have a German company owning the major share in BAE combat vehicle division seems strange.

German firm to control UK tanks business

Is it wise for the government to allow this?
You do know that ‘that Rifle’ is a Belgian design?.........
 

Auld-Yin

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That doesn't make it British!
But it does make it British built, under licence. What the latest takeover means it might be built in Britain but is actually a German company doing the work. Do you think this is a good move?
 
The story was about Rheinmetall. They make the gun, fire control system, and ammunition for the Leopard, but the tank itself is made by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (now merged with Nexter).
Bingo - the CR2 chassis gets Rheinmetall out of KMW’s shadow, and properly into the MBT market...

And as I’ve said before, if we want something before 2030, it’s going to be a CR2 with a new turret - not a leopard 3 (which doesn’t exist!)


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But it does make it British built, under licence. What the latest takeover means it might be built in Britain but is actually a German company doing the work. Do you think this is a good move?
We're way past the point where whether it is 'good' is relevant.. Years of planning blight, financial mismanagement and decision paralysis has got us to this point. 74 years on from the end of WW2 and the UK still can't agree on its role in the world (or even Europe FFS) so it's hardly likely to have excellent strategic military direction, one of the end results is that we don't build tanks ourselves any more. It's a pity, but to say that it's the end of the world is going a bit far. Plenty of other nations buy their armour elsewhere this at least keeps us in the game a bit.

Think on:

AJAX - consortium
MRVP Tr 1 - US
MRVP Tr 2 - US or Australian
MIV - German (but British by birth! Yeah! Yeah!)
MLRS - US

You can argue that bits are built here and there in UK but really CR2, WR and AS90 were probably the last truly UK armour projects. And 432......

Oh, and we have German trucks now!

Thank God we can still build our own ships - being an island an 'a that.......
 
Not entirely our fault. We can actually blame the Germans for shafting us a little bit there. Us and the Germans had competing rocket projects, ours was more expensive but vastly more deadly and accurate. The Germans just wanted to spread some mines over that-a-away and let the Soviet formations run into it. We had a system capable of accurate fire to quite a range, and was quite deadly. A battery salvo from our project would result in something horrible like 60% casualties in crew and equipment for a soviet artillery battery. The Idea was when the Red Army open up, our fire finder radar aims a salvo from our rockets, the rockets dump a salvo and shoot and scoot. That way in very short order the Soviets facing us would be very short on artillery support. Mobility came from a Warrior chassis which carried a bunch of launchers, and could do 50mph on good roads. A Resupply vehicle which could bomb up two launcher vehicles was designed on the same chassis.

Thing is our version was entirely British made, while theirs was entirely German made. Both were competing for the same NATO standardisation slot. We took a bit of a lead, and suddenly the Germans turned round and demanded that the minimum temperature to be used was the lowest ever recorded in mainland Europe (IIRC up a mountain in the middle of winter). Where as every other piece of kit the Germans designed or standardised on form NATO used the 2% figure (IE it will work at a minimum average temperature encountered on 98% of the days).

They used this argument, much to the disgust of the British, to fanny about for many years, and brought in LARS and MARS systems.
Then they got a nasty surprise when the US showed up with the MLRS. Which did Minelets, and met all the NATO requirements (IIRC NMBR 39), which importantly included palletised re-loading. Our original design you could re-load two rockets at the time, so it was close to the ideal laid out by NMBR 39.
Then the Germans didn't have a leg to stand on so brought in. But that time the ever increasing cost had caused our project to get nuked by the Treasury.
 
Probably because we still have the remnants of a ship building industry and our fighting power in days of yore was based on our naval ability. MBT building and aircraft building are merely new fangled things.
Don't forget that the collaborative naval ships projects have all fallen apart. The problem is also keeping up that drumbeat of design and build - as the Astute class demonstrated.
 
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