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CGS-Prince of Darkness!

CGS 's main concern

  • The Future of the Army

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Peerage and after dinner circuit

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#2
Letterwritingman said:
so what do you think....is he more concerned with his peerage and after dinner speaking circuit career or does he truly not give a feck :?
I think this is a bit premature before we see what actually comes out from MOD, hopefully next week. Speculation in the press on the end of the world for the services may be true, may not. Swingeing cuts in the RAF and Navy, in order to fund an expansion in medics, logisticians, engineers and signallers (for all of which the current inter tour interval is as bad as it gets) may transpire. If it does, should we call on this thread for the resignation of CAS and 1SL?

Jacko has never been noted for kow towing to politicians, and since we have no idea what's gone on in the corridors of power, what appears might well be the best that could possibly have been extracted from the situation. It's a bit narrow minded to assume he's sold out before we've even seen what he's done.

Wait out!

Don
 
#3
My guess is that the chap with the lived in face has been dealt a crap set of cards.

You won't find out until he retires/resigns as he can't say anything about his political boss while he's in the job.
 
#4
Alas I think he's just another neutered poodle fawning obsequiously along at the end of the Socialist leash.

Unfortunately at the end of the day the only ones shedding a tear will be those of us who are serving or who have served in the regiments affected. The real crunch will come when faced with the realization that Britain's sadly depleted forces can no longer effectively defend our own shores let alone project force to defend our interests abroad. We are dangerously approaching that sad state.
 
#5
Busterdog said:
Alas I think he's just another neutered poodle fawning obsequiously along at the end of the Socialist leash.
You're entitled to your view. Forming it on the basis of press speculation rather than the full story does rather devalue it to my mind. So does tying in a party political view - the tories cut us more dramatically and with no more thought when they were in, and look set to do the same again if they ever get back in to government. Perhaps we have to accept they're all arrses, but they're still our bosses. Nevertheless, you're still entitled to your view.

Busterdog said:
The real crunch will come when faced with the realization that Britain's sadly depleted forces can no longer effectively defend our own shores let alone project force to defend our interests abroad. We are dangerously approaching that sad state.
You may be right - I have no idea what the announcement will say. But the warning of wolves coming is one that has been played several times since the end of the Cold War. Expecting the public to spot when we really really mean it can't be easy.
 
#6
I think wholesale condemnation or fulsome praise of CGS should be left till we actually know what is going on, as opposed to speculation.

Wondering out loud, if Sir POD has gone the same way as others who should have defended our corner in 1999 is counter-productive , and just what Journalists are looking for this week, especially those that support the Beloved Leader and the Bouffant B-Hoon

So can I ask that the POD-bashing cease . It's pointless right now, and it'll only give rise to "Army anger at betrayal/Troops turn on Commanders" type bollix from certain of the red tops, and heavier papers that should know better.

One thing is certain, the Political party that will gain the bulk of the Forces vote, will be the one that says "We will rescind any cuts made by the previous Government"

This out this morning. The journalist concerned, is Pro-Army.

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk...e=mps-will-fight--m6-regiment--name_page.html

MPs will fight 'M6 regiment' Jul 17 2004


By John Revill, Birmingham Post


Two senior Midland MPs have vowed to oppose any Government proposals to scrap two local Army units and amalgamate them into a combined "M6 regiment".

Speculation mounted yesterday that the Army plans its most radical shake-up since the 1870s, with all 19 of the single battalion infantry regiments merging into larger regional formations.

The Green Howards, the Highlanders and the Black Watch are among the famous names facing the axe.

In the Midlands, the reorganisation could see the end of the Staffordshire Regiment and the Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters.

MPs Michael Fabricant and Bruce George have crossed party lines to oppose the plan, which is believed to have been advocated by Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon in order to improve efficiency and recruitment.

Mr Fabricant (Con Lichfield) said he was alarmed by reports about the Defence Secretary's statement due next week.

He has tabled a question to Mr Hoon asking for more information about the future of the Staffords, which can boast 13 Victoria Cross winners during its 300-year history.

"The Staffordshire Regiment has had a glorious past and an illustrious present," said Mr Fabricant.

"It is integral to the life of Lichfield having being founded in the City in the King's Head in Bird Street.

"Its 300th anniversary will be celebrated next year. Government cuts and a desperate drive to be 'modern' must not be allowed to transform the celebration into a wake."

Bruce George (Lab Walsall South) said he would oppose any attempts to merge the two regiments with the 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment to create a Mercia Regiment.

He said: "It has been obvious for several months that the MoD has been looking at some sort of reorganisation, but they have kept their mouths very tightly closed.

"I do not mind the Government looking at reorganisation, but I am dead against any further mergers of regiments.

"I took part in the campaign in the early 1990s to prevent a merger between the Staffords and the Cheshire Regiment and I will organise one again if I have to."

Good old Bruce. So you know which MP's to barrage with messages of support now :D
 
#7
Tearing up the arms plot system and moving to a two-battalion system tied to regions does have its merits. However, using this plan to destroy centuries-old regimental traditions and cut manpower even further is exactly the disgrace it appears to be! I'm sure the announcement will be made next Wed but the full detail may not be in the public domain until the autumn.
 
#9
My first posting and I agree with the view that we have to wait and see. Nice of retired Colonel Black to get his knife out today in the Telegraph and have a go at a regiment - shouldn't have been hard for the Fusiliers to work out who. A bit rich coming from someone who didn't identify his own capbadge interest but then that's a QLR man for you; perhaps his nickname was 'Kipper'? :evil: [/quote]
 
#10
Great Bloke despite being a para and thoroughly concerned with the soldiers lot.

He is unlike most CGS as he is quite prepared to go head to head with the best of them if he doesn't agree with policy decisions. eg telling Gen Wes Clark to ram up his poopchute the suggestion that the Brits should attack the Ruskies little BTR BG at the airport in Kosovo.

Dont ever get stuck in a mess with him though............he is an army champion quaffer of whisky! 8O

Don't think he gives a flying feck for peerage etc....especially now Tony Bliar is trying to cheapen and devalue the whole process :wink:
 
#11
I don't think we can blame CGS for this really, he has been dealt a bum hand by Mr (buff)Hoon and has to play it to his best ability.

What is said to planned for the the infanty regiments - especially those from Scotland - is little short of criminal, but at present we're living on rumours, let's see what Wednesday brings in black and white.

Oh BTW, my first post here.
 
#12
Karen and Plastic Squaddie,

Welcome to the board.

Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of the Tory , and it doesn't appear on the letters bit of the website.

Could you give us a bit more detail on what was said please?

Regards

PTP
 
#13
Letter to Editor: Sir - The strength of the present regimental system should be argued not on the grounds of tradition, history, battle honours and past glory, but on those of sustainability. Any reorganisation should be based on units that can recruit and meet their manpower targets. The small regiments of the North and Midlands fit the bill, being the best manned of all. They have an affinity with their regions that encourages recruitment. The MOD plans to cut them on no better grounds than that they escaped cuts in the last round.

The large regiments are struggling to meet their manpower targets because they have no local profile. This is not just a case of having a weak demographic base: one such regiment that now includes in its recruiting area the ripe pickings of Northumberland, Lancahire and Warwickshire is presently sustained by an intake of some 130 Fijiians.

If we are to have fully manned battalions i future, without reliance on the enforced mobilisation of Territorial Army personnel and an intake of foreign and Commonwealth personnel, then we must rely on those regiments that can meet the manpower target.

Mr Hoon should heed the old Army adage: 'Never reinforce failure.' Col David Black, Osmotherley, N Yorks.

Just a couple of points:

1 QLR had to be reinforced for its Gulf Tour - including a platoon from the Bury based Fusiliers TA as well as other units - fully manned? Yeah, right.

Do you see young men fighting to join the QLR as young officers?

It took 6 former regiments to make 1 QLR battalion.

I wont go on..
 
#14
This is not just a case of having a weak demographic base: one such regiment that now includes in its recruiting area the ripe pickings of Northumberland, Lancahire and Warwickshire is presently sustained by an intake of some 130 Fijiians.
Well you're right Karen, no prizes for guessing who he's referring to.

More Cheese with your whine Sir?

Ripe pickings? Compared to what exactly? Is there massive unemployment in the areas he mentioned? Are the recruiting teams up against Civvy Street or not?

No it is not just a case of a weak demographic base Colonel.

It is also a case of Regimental identity , and that all important feeling of "belonging" being eroded to the point of no return.

I was privileged to go to Tyne Cot with our, as then was 6th Battalion. I was fairly emotional, as I have a Great Uncle buried there , but they were even more so , especially at the 50th Div. Memorial , and the story of the Alnwick Territorials, and a suicidal attack against 2 German strongpoints.

The gist of the story, and someone might correct me on the details, was the Alnwick and surrounding TA Companies were given NTM to Belgium, and were on the ground inside a week. They were then tasked to attack 2 German strongpoints , under a creeping barrage of Arty.

The problem was, the attack and therefore the Arty was cancelled , but no one told them. They were cut down in droves, but still gained the position. Of nearly 800 men , I think something like 40 reached the Pillboxes.

As these young Northumbrians wandered around the graves, they kept remarking "Aye, I know his family" or "he was one of the first Volunteers" etc etc. The fact was, they ALL knew the story, and it was a very very strong source of pride for them.I watched an ex-reg from 1 RRF on his knees weeping , and praying in front of his Great Grandfathers grave. This man was Nails. Others recognised names of relations by descent or marriage.

They KNEW not only their unit history, but the Town history as well. There was a tremendous amount of pride , and a feeling of sharing a common bond with Heroes from another time and place.

Now, a Fijian, nay not have that, but he will certainly have empathy with the history and feelings of his fellow soldiers, and he will eventually be assimilated.

When the bean counters reach for the axe, looking to "jolly up" the books, so Buff can buy the latest bit of whizzo kit from the Spams, or launch another White Elephant programme, they forget, that at the heart of the British Army, is tradition and Regimental values.

We fight for Queen and Country. Maybe.

I will fight for my oppos, the people I know, work with, and share a common interest with. The people who come from the same village, town or City as me.

I fight for my Regiment, A Regiment that 4 Generations of my family have served in , and I am not the only one in my Regiment, Regular or TA , that can identify a predecessor that has served in it.

What makes this Army , truly great, and the envy of the world, is that everyone else thinks the same way I do.

And before people say "Oh , but the Americans don't have Named Regimental Systems"

No, but they have State Guard units, and they are just as fiercely proud of their Battle Honours , esprit de corps and common denominators as we are.That is what a lot of Guardsmen serving in the Litter Tray , says is what keeps them going.

To use another Spam-ism "It it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Sorry for rambling, but you get the gist
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#15
PartTimePongo said:
This is not just a case of having a weak demographic base: one such regiment that now includes in its recruiting area the ripe pickings of Northumberland, Lancahire and Warwickshire is presently sustained by an intake of some 130 Fijiians.
<snip>
I will fight for my oppos, the people I know, work with, and share a common interest with. The people who come from the same village, town or City as me.

I fight for my Regiment, A Regiment that 4 Generations of my family have served in , and I am not the only one in my Regiment, Regular or TA , that can identify a predecessor that has served in it.
Well said PTP, good on yer......still not sure why you ditched the Manga avatar though!

Le Chevre
 
#17
I think we must all remember that we answer to and serve the politicians, who, in turn represent the people. All Jacko can do is express his concerns - which means that ultimately he must do what they, the politicians tell him to do. What are his other options, hari-kari? :?:
 
#18
Sorry, until recently I thought the whiskey quaffer was a man to look up to, follow and, yes, respect. The point people have made that he was dealt a poor hand etc just doesn't wash. If he had any real respect for the troops he has always been supposed to fight for, he wouldn't have stood for the political engineering that phoney tony, buff and the purse man are spouting.
If he really felt as strongly as most people I speak to, he would have resigned (God he must already be on one hell of a pension!), and spoken his mind in support of his troops. That is unless he truly believes the proposed changes are needed!!!.
 
#20
If he really felt as strongly as most people I speak to, he would have resigned (God he must already be on one hell of a pension!), and spoken his mind in support of his troops. That is unless he truly believes the proposed changes are needed!!!.
what, allow someone with no spine to lead. I would say things would have been far worse if he left. just to make a point
 

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