CGS - British troops should be trained as nation-builders

#1
British soldiers should be trained to rebuild war-torn countries and not just fight conflicts, Britain's top soldier is expected to say.
Military training should be broadened so that service personnel spend time working for local councils to learn how to establish democratic governments in developing countries. General Sir Richard Dannatt will say.

Sir Richard, the Chief of the General Staff, will use a Westminster speech to propose a shake-up of the way the Army trains its personnel and runs its operations, to put more focus on reconstruction and development work.

His suggestion comes amid concern in Whitehall about the way the British military mission in Afghanistan is fitting into the wider Western effort to develop that country's government and economy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ops-should-be-trained-as-nation-builders.html

Personally , I think it's essential and the way to go. Though I don't tink it should be solely confined to the Military .Now if you could dovetail suitable S20 operatives with the right aptitude and enthusiasm on extended tours with this, it's a winner.
 
#2
To paraphrase an oft quoted phrase (dementia kicking in) go in harsh then apply kindness.

The Romans did the same thing, flattened and almost decimated the natives then rebuilt.

I'm surprised that it's taken so long for top brass to vouch for this. (not quite I know)

We all know that once there are feet on the ground (Germany, Japan) an occupation force becomes a police/infrastructure necessity.

Yes, the politicos have said this also but we don't listen/trust them. This, announcement I would say carries more weight, if only because it comes from one of our own.

Good call.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#3
Maybe they could start with the UK. Well, charity should begin in the home., shouldn't it?
 
#4
Given the current climate it took him long enough to produce a 'state the bloody obvious' soundbite, mind you, he's a soldier, not some slimy politician. If training in that direction is the way forward I can see The Corps being expanded (cutbacks, what cutbacks?) :salut:
 
#5
We'd have to convince DfID to let us get on with it, rather than insisting on the establishment of four thousand committees before any work starts...
 
#7
Whilst the concept is sound, I am unsure of the number of volunteers to work with Lambeth Council for 2 years, and what job they would do? Outreach councillor?
 
#8
Sparky2339 said:
Yes, the politicos have said this also but we don't listen/trust them. This, announcement I would say carries more weight, if only because it comes from one of our own.

Good call.
The politicos knew this they just didn't want to pay for it post Iraq...and post Afghanistan. well done Rumsfield TCH and all the other players in that clearly thought out policy! :x

Aid has been and is still better delivered by the forces having some primacy in its development rather than NGO's. In kosovo, i saw how various big and small NGO's worked at first hand and they rarely had the resources to deliver the valuable Aid they had without some use of our cell.

Once again however the problem as i see it is not so much the guys on the ground not being nation builders once an area is secure its seems to be the government in the form of the Foreign Office and DFID? Interested to hear otherwise?

Finally the government have figured that money needs to be spent and worryingly for One Eye lots of it! If only they thought the same about 'offensive operations' :x
 
#10
BiscuitsAB

Tha's right!!!

But it's the bloody wheeltappers and shunters club that seem to be running the show :(

Whhennn aaaah werrrrrrr (insert phlegm) a rraaddd....

(cue Dvorak's new world symphony for the Hovis advert - uphill wi his bike)
 
#11
I thought we already had the nation building down pat. Engrs to rebuild bridges, siganals put in the phones, and everybody else goes round a nd paints a school or something.

This is concentrating on the "committee" bit. Something the Armed Forces don´t really do.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
The septics, under Petreaus got that lesson learned after a few years, and it's part and parcel of 'The Surge'. They'd swamp an area with troops, have love-ins with all the sheiks and players, move the rubbish, provide the locals with all the kit and fuel they needed, empower the local bosses, train the local troops and police, and then surge somewhere else to do the same thing; all the while, assisting in the chasing down and slotting of the bad guys.

The reason why we've not been able to have the same successes as the septics is UNDERFUNDING, UNDER-EQUIPPING, UNDER MANNING and gobment incompetence.

I must point out though, that the septics DID accuse us of getting into bed with all and sundry a couple of years ago in the Stan . . . . only for them to do the same thing in Iraq, and then reap the rewards!

'Hearts and Minds' is a British thing, copied by the yanks, not the other way around of course, but they've got the gobment backing, the funds, the kit, and the men.

So, in essence, General Sir Richard Dannatt is right as usual, but the whole thing falls apart because it's not supported by our own government, and less by the MOD which is scratching around in the dirt for ever reducing funds, and what it can find, it's p!ssing up the wall through incompetence.
 
#13
Halo Jones you have your finger on the pulse - ever thought of running for gubbmint??

Well said, far more eloquently and to the point than I could ever hope to.

I thank you.
 
#14
A very interesting concept ,especially as there are so many spare squaddies sitting around doing nothing who could be better employed sitting about in a Town Hall organising bin collections. Maybe a better idea would be to train some of the 1.6 million unemployed to perform these tasks and leave the overstretched and underfunded forces to do their job. If there is one certainty in these suggestions it's that no more money would be made available so it would be funded from the defence budget.
 
#15
Biped

Well said.

Between you and Halo Jones... Can I PM you both before I post?

You put it so much better than I.

I can chunter away to my hearts content but it's folk like you we need to get this across to joe public (via the meedja?).

You two are far better than the gubbmint spin doctors. As in Catchphrase - say it how you see it :D
 
#16
PartTimePongo said:
Personally , I think it's essential and the way to go. Though I don't tink it should be solely confined to the Military .Now if you could dovetail suitable S20 operatives with the right aptitude and enthusiasm on extended tours with this, it's a winner.
Don't you think that the choice of a form of government of any country should be left to the local population? Or is it again: One Size Fits All doctrine? Don't politicians ever learn?
 
#17
My point although I agree with all comments as above, We would need essentially more manpower to rebuild a nation. We would need to recruit and train more tradesmen and CIMIC officers and NCO's also. Under todays current Op climate not possible, as it just shafting the lads and lasses even more.

I am wondering as said above, is the CGS been mouth pieced by the government???? I don't think so but just it slighty concerns me, and I think the government need to look closer to home first instead of re-building other nations but ours here in UK.

Its currently a economic disaster and ravaged by gun and knife crime. Education is shambles and more people are poorier than ever. SVEN bring it on with your pinko bollax!
 
#18
Domovoy said:
Don't you think that the choice of a form of government of any country should be left to the local population?

Oh that old cherry, Democracy and a right to self determination, don't be silly, we don't have it so why should they and of course we know better than the natives and their pickeninies.

As for nation building the CGS needs to catch up with PM(A) some time as RMP have been doing this for years, as was demonstrated by the successful creation of an efficient Police Service in Basra. From the official RMP pages on the MOD website.

In post conflict operations the RMP role often expands, and they have historically found themselves as the only police force within a foreign country. In recent years (Kosovo and Iraq) they have found themselves as the only police force, required to police a foreign nation, and assist in the regeneration of the local Police Force.

The RMP role in a society where Law and Order has collapsed involves more than investigations, it requires the RMP to establish and train the Indigenous Police and in some cases completely rebuild a Police Force. Whilst the International communities provide civilian police officers to undertake this role in the latter stages, it is the RMP who are the first police on the ground post conflict. It is the RMP who have the soldierly and policing skills required to undertake this in very hostile situations. In Iraq the RMP are still heavily involved in this complex role.


Where the knowledge and experience to do this has come from I really don't know, but it appears that they can. As per their motto RMP again lead by example.
 
#19
I'm all for folk moving here for a better life.

Lotsa folk see them as spongers.

They will be, if they know how to play the system. Folk wherever they're from should work for a living. Just because you clean bogs for a living folk think yer a spacker - you may read Chaucer or Shakespeare, who knows?

You're judged in this country by the job you do. We have advocated so far us rebuilding another country, but to do similar jobs in Uk carry a stigma. Well ye won't get a fortune as a cleaner here, but do the same job in the ghan or Iraq?

Maybe it's time we were invaded?? Look at post war Germany and Japan - doing better than we are I'd say....
 
#20
Sparky2339 said:
Halo Jones you have your finger on the pulse - ever thought of running for gubbmint??
I doubt i would do well in politics, for many reasons.

but like many others here on ARRSE we all know the realities of the real world and have first hand experience of the problems on operations of one form or another at some stage or another. if only some of the front bencher's from all the parties did.


A flying visit looks good does nothing...perhaps if the cabinet were too read a few pages of ARRSE they might get there heads out of there expensive ass's.


My real worry is that it is too little too late, the mixed messages that HMG has sent is and has been exploited as i see it by both terry and the corrupt, with the global economy lurching into what could be soon in freefall then its going to have to be a quick withdrawal regardless. :x


cnuts tourettes and PMQ's with me biach slapping One Eye his blarts and fcuktards on the front bench would be entertaining though i will give you that sparky. :wink:

edited to add crack on sparky feel free too PM me :)
 

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