• ARRSE have partnered with Armadillo Merino to bring you an ARRSE exclusive, generous discount offer on their full price range.
    To keep you warm with the best of Merino gear, visit www.armadillomerino.co.uk and use the code: NEWARRSE40 at the checkout to get 40% off!
    This superb deal has been generously offered to us by Armadillo Merino and is valid until midnight on the the 28th of February.

CGS: British Army to get US style 'Commissioned Warrant Officers'?

I'd have considered the reserve cyber thing, but have zero interest in being any sort of a junior or senior NCO, or of being 'commanded' by DE officers.
Ditto mate. I am a JNCO in the Int Corps (reserve), and a cyber (god I hate the term) SME in my civvie job. Not prepared to be treated like a child when I am the SME for any amount of money.

If they want my knowledge I expect to be treated as a professional and with respect as I do at work, and the whole rank fixation the Army still has stops that from happening, even in a corps like the Int corps..
 
I've let my CEng lapse. Outside of the Army, the only time it ever was recognised or added value was in Germany too. Having Eur Ing on my card was a definite door opener especially into government.

Which drags me back to my point. How cna the Army measure expertise in order to box people into some sort of a rank equivalency. We all know that no one else does this, but the Army will try.....
The change needs to be systemic and the reporting and promotion system much be modified to reflect the military need for expertise at the various levels of command. I would suggest that the posts that need to be held by specialists need to be identified and protected by some sort of oversight process, so that they do not get rubbed out..

Again, we did have these posts along with the professional heads to ensure they were maintained, but they were lost in the many drawdown processes over the past forty years. I strongly suspect this was aided and abetted by the various postings branches which became infested with the greasy pole brigade, and to whom filling specialist posts was a huge PITA.. mainly because they had never bothered to do proper career profiling and management in the past to grow the individuals to fill the posts.

What seems to have happened is that a specialist post has been difficult to fill, so that a numpty has been put in to cover the requirement. The duty numpty has then been ignored by the organisation in question who after a couple of years became convinced that the post was pointless and wrote it out. Manning branch says "yipee" and offers the slot for a Generalist post that is easy to fill.

Organisms die from the head... if you get rid of high ranking specialists, whose job it is to ensure that professional standards are maintained, then the rest of the pyramid will die...
 
This has been a great Arrse thread - and I understand the concerns of those involved. So my one and only contribution is to ask, can we not give specialists Warrants - as in an MP is acting on with the authority of a Brig and therefore can... argue with a subordinate rank?

What I mean to suggest is that in Cyber, it is a whole new realm, requires a different pay structure and needs people who do not need to be fxcked around like the Infantry however, there is a command system and it will take eons to change it - give them Authority to act and argue with un-authorised senior ranks.

Happy to be shot down, I shall now take my leave.
 
Ditto mate. I am a JNCO in the Int Corps (reserve), and a cyber (god I hate the term) SME in my civvie job. Not prepared to be treated like a child when I am the SME for any amount of money.

If they want my knowledge I expect to be treated as a professional and with respect as I do at work, and the whole rank fixation the Army still has stops that from happening, even in a corps like the Int corps..
Interestingly, in other rank dominated organisations I've experienced, the experts get listened to, to the extent that the higher up you go, the more specialist advice is sought. Furthermore the experts are also not civis typically. Perhaps it's where the culture of 'anyone can be anything' helps. I dunno.
 
Ditto mate. I am a JNCO in the Int Corps (reserve), and a cyber (god I hate the term) SME in my civvie job. Not prepared to be treated like a child when I am the SME for any amount of money.

If they want my knowledge I expect to be treated as a professional and with respect as I do at work, and the whole rank fixation the Army still has stops that from happening, even in a corps like the Int corps..
and this is the entire point of looking at other roles for PQO like status
 
and this is the entire point of looking at other roles for PQO like status
Or treat NCOs like professionals and not like idiots.. Most other organisations lose a fair amount of staff when they treat them poorly. oh wait :) . I am a manager at work, and wasn't keen on officering unless I want to lead others at the weekend too..
 
This has been a great Arrse thread - and I understand the concerns of those involved. So my one and only contribution is to ask, can we not give specialists Warrants - as in an MP is acting on with the authority of a Brig and therefore can... argue with a subordinate rank?

What I mean to suggest is that in Cyber, it is a whole new realm, requires a different pay structure and needs people who do not need to be fxcked around like the Infantry however, there is a command system and it will take eons to change it - give them Authority to act and argue with un-authorised senior ranks.

Happy to be shot down, I shall now take my leave.
"Excuse me Sir, but I think that you are confusing your rank with my authority"! :-D
 
It has indeed been encapsulated in 77X, with all the restriction that that imposes. What I was saying is to get the right people, and more importantly, hold on to them then perhaps doing this inside the current army structure is too limiting.
There is some work being initiated on this very topic...
 
This has been a great Arrse thread - and I understand the concerns of those involved. So my one and only contribution is to ask, can we not give specialists Warrants - as in an MP is acting on with the authority of a Brig and therefore can... argue with a subordinate rank?.
The US Army CID use Commissioned Warrant Officers; personally, I would being back WO3 and employ them as specialist Warrant Officers outside of the CoC - they should paid as WO1's too, once they have accrued sufficient seniority and experience...
 
The US Army CID use Commissioned Warrant Officers; personally, I would being back WO3 and employ them as specialist Warrant Officers outside of the CoC - they should paid as WO1's too, once they have accrued sufficient seniority and experience...
Where would they come from? Promoted from within or external appointments?

Also what would their career path be after WO3?

Genuine questions - just trying to understand your thinking.


WM
 
The US Army CID use Commissioned Warrant Officers; personally, I would being back WO3 and employ them as specialist Warrant Officers outside of the CoC - they should paid as WO1's too, once they have accrued sufficient seniority and experience...
I disagree, they need that 'Warrant Card' to set them apart from the Chain of Command up to a certain level in the CoC - that way Junior Officers - you know, Majors and all ;) can be politely told to Foxtrot Oscar - just saying like - sorry, what did you say your Rank was? ;) :)
 
Where would they come from? Promoted from within or external appointments?

Also what would their career path be after WO3?

Genuine questions - just trying to understand your thinking.

WM
Good questions; I would use the RAF NCA career path as a model, perhaps with a new WO1-equivalent rank similar to Master Aircrew. They would still commission as LE's but only placed in PQO-type appointments. It would be a narrow career path but one that is more than adequately compensated for deep expertise.
 
I disagree, they need that 'Warrant Card' to set them apart from the Chain of Command up to a certain level in the CoC - that way Junior Officers - you know, Majors and all ;) can be politely told to Foxtrot Oscar - just saying like - sorry, what did you say your Rank was? ;) :)
The RMP have Warrant Cards and the appropriate powers. Trying to get the MoD Police to become the new RMP would not work...
 
The US Army CID use Commissioned Warrant Officers; personally, I would being back WO3 and employ them as specialist Warrant Officers outside of the CoC - they should paid as WO1's too, once they have accrued sufficient seniority and experience...
You'd have to call them something else, though. WO3 was outranked by a WO2 and then the WO1.
And outside the CoC? Even US Warrant Officers have a CoC.
 

Latest Threads