Cessation of Para Training until 2011

#1
Hi guys,

I suppose most Airborne bods (past & present) are already aware of the Governments intentions to cease Para Training until 2011. That's the thanks you get from politicos with more faces than town hall clocks. 3 Para kick arse in Helmland, losing good men for the cause and come back to this crap. Smacks of how they crapped on the Black Watch too.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to make you aware of a petition (created by an ex Para Regt lad called David Smart) to the PM to stop this madness.

Follow the link below and sign up to it should you feel as disgusted as me.

This Link will take you to a write up in the Telegraph.

And This Link will take you to the petition.
 
#2
Understand your bitterness, but it is only one aspect of Para training being cut, and to be fair an aspect that hasn't been used operationally since the Suez.

The Yanks airdroped in during Telic, but no Brits have parachuted for decades. It is a logical cut when you think about it. Would you rather keep the parachute training but lose a couple of armoured vehicles for use in Afganistan/Iraq?

It's all cheques and balances now.
 
#4
hmmmm 2011? What's the betting that the training will never come back? In 4 years time the money will have been re-allocated and some thinktank will say that if we haven't needed for 4 years, we will never need it. End of Para's I think.
 
#5
Infiltrator wrote
some thinktank will say that if we haven't needed for 4 years, we will never need it.
They are way ahead. See my point about the last op jump by anything significant in the '50s. It is probably already cut.

If we really needed to drop a few sticks though, how hard would be to bring a regiment on line? The French took to dropping untrained volunteers during Dien Bien Phu (I think).
 
#6
I don't mean to annoy anyone, but here is an idea. A while ago there was an idea floating around ARRSE that the govt was going to allocate a Rifle Battalion to 3 Cdo Brigade.

Instead, why not allocate one (or both) of the Para Regimmnts? As they have passed P-Company they will not have to do the AACC, just training on Viking, amphibiousity etc. You don't have to be P-Company trained to be part of 16AAB, so any Rifle Battalion could do it.

I am not trying to wind anyone up, and I think the way the govt is doing this stinks. If they have a plan to abolish parachuting then they should be honest about it (yer, right!). But I think this might be a good idea as a way of keeping the Paras "special", and they could even be allowed to keep their berets as a way of differentiatling between RM Cdos and Army Cdos.
 
#7
Geordie_Blerk said:
I'd personally rather lose the RAF and have Virgin despatching the blokes.
Right!That's you off the Crimbo list!! :p

What'd ya rather have?
A nice WRAF serving you a horror bag or a puff with a drinks trolley?? :twisted:
 
#9
spike7451 said:
Geordie_Blerk said:
I'd personally rather lose the RAF and have Virgin despatching the blokes.
Right!That's you off the Crimbo list!! :p

What'd ya rather have?
A nice WRAF serving you a horror bag or a puff with a drinks trolley?? :twisted:
A nice WRAF?

If you mean 17 stone, moustache wearing 'female', squeezed into a grow bag then I'm going gay every time.
 
#10
lanky said:
Instead, why not allocate one (or both) of the Para Regimmnts? As they have passed P-Company they will not have to do the AACC, just training on Viking, amphibiousity etc. You don't have to be P-Company trained to be part of 16AAB, so any Rifle Battalion could do it.

So you are proposing to bin the most high readiness brigade in the British army?

But I think this might be a good idea as a way of keeping the Paras "special", and they could even be allowed to keep their berets as a way of differentiatling between RM Cdos and Army Cdos.

Another throbber who thinks it is parachuting that make us elite. I suppose we've spearheaded most operations in the last 10 years because of our parachuting capability.
 
#11
David Smart said:
From David Smart (ex 2 RGJ - 2 Para – 10 Para)

Just a quick reply to some of the post on your excellent forum …

I also note that a blog was started by Fred_Cat on Sun Dec 17th
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=53739/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

However, this is a reply (and thanks) to Keith who posted on Sun Dec 24th
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=1006048.html#1006048

The different between ARSE and what I’m doing is:
This goes direct to “The PM Office” and while all your comments (on ARSE) are helpful (and funny) the likes of Tony Blair simply do-not read them, now you have a chance to change that.

What we really need is the whole of the country uniting in a protest about all the issues, but that isn’t going to happen until the next election, and then you are going to get the same again … so just bend-over and keep taking it ***********.

Or click the link http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Military-Madness … your choice

If you do decide to join me, then please be pro-active and get all your friends to sign as well

I hope you join me,

David Smart
 
#12
Ok, I signed the petition and as every right thinking person would do forwarded it to some mates for their signatures.
Then the first reply came back:
"The petition was only running up until the 22nd of December"
I checked the page and it certainly looks like that.
Can someone explain why?
Seems a pretty short time to collect signatures unless you think the government/press would be stirred up by 79 names?



Quack
 
#15
Nothing surprises me HMG in peacetime cut and thrust as the do hence we had Dunkirk. Para training is a must as is all other training. You lose it you rue it. BUT the politicos wont pay the price just Tommy Atkins
 
#17
chocolate_frog said:
Understand your bitterness, but it is only one aspect of Para training being cut, and to be fair an aspect that hasn't been used operationally since the Suez.
With respect, I think that this misses the point. It all comes down to regimental tradition. Parachuting is what sets this particular regiment - the Paras - apart from the rest of the Army.

You can see which way this is likely to go, especially with Gordon Brown in charge. The defence budget will remain the same, but operational costs racked up in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue to increase. Something will have to give and anything not linked to combat is likely to be at risk.

For example, one day we might well have a Household Division without horses. tin breastplates, red tunics or bearskins. All ceremonial duties and occasions could also be at risk. Think of the savings that could be made on basic things like No 2 uniform. It sounds good on paper, but in terms of esprit de corps we would all lose big time if we continued down this route.

The trouble is that no one in government has served, or has even the faintest idea about regimental tradition. I almost hesitate to post this because some policy wonk in the Labour party or soft bummed MOD w@nker might read it and get ideas. How much more damage can this government do? :( :( :(

SLR (Not to be confused with SLR boy).
 
#18
SelfLoadingRifle,

In that case, can we not start to catalogue the things that are a genuine waste of money: things like feck-off big uniform allowances for Guards ruperts, for example? :wink:
 
#19
Fallschirmjager said:
Another throbber who thinks it is parachuting that make us elite. I suppose we've spearheaded most operations in the last 10 years because of our parachuting capability.
Chickens and eggs, the parachuting per se is not the be all and end all, but it justifies the selection, tactics, training, and ulitmately the ethos that produces the results. There was a pretty good BBC documentary a few years back following the disbanding of the CAR that looked at parachute forces all over the globe and concluded that without the parachute training you could not get the desired result. Can't find a link to the piece just now.

A quote from the inquiry into the Somalian "episode" sums it up well:

Airborne forces, characteristically, need to be at a higher state of readiness than non-airborne troops. They need to be ready for action within 48 to 96 hours, and they are intended to be employed in areas where other ground forces do not have access and tend to operate in high-intensity situations on their own resources for short periods. These employment characteristics were reflected in the concept of operations for the CAR. The unit's conceived role included being ready for rapid deployment anywhere in Canada and being Canada's standby unit to conduct UN operations on short notice.

As a result of this concept of operations and the demands of parachuting, there was generally a higher physical fitness requirement for Airborne soldiers. Because of these physical demands, service in the CAR was voluntary.


As soon as you start taking out bits from the requirements the overall effect is destroyed. Think about all the parts of training and selection that you have justified to a recruit on the basis that a paratrooper has to get from the DZ to the firefight and then prevail without resupply.
 
#20
"THIS IS PATHETIC" How can you stop the PARA'S Jumping for four years or even longer, the scots regements were axed which has left them massivly under strength and we do not want this to happen to the paras who are risking thier lives every day in afganistan.
What next no boat training for the ROYAL MARINES, This is all pants if you ask me.
An other thing
Can anyone tell me if this is true, becouse the british forces head count has fell below 100,000 we are no longer an ARMY but a meer DEFENCE FORCE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :x :x :? :? :?