CERN / LHC Higgs update

#1
So, yesterday's announcement about the Higgs boson. They haven't found it but ...

The ATLAS experiment - working with posited Higgs decays to 2 photons and a more complex decay via a pair of Z bosons into 2 pairs of leptons and anti-leptons - has seen an excess of signals at around 126 GeV, but with a significance (sigma) greater than they would have expected if there was a Standard Model Higgs at that energy. Of course, it may be the Standard Model that is borked.

The CMS experiment - using the same decays as well as W boson / lepton / neutrino, tau and quark / antiquark decays has seen an excess of signals at 124GeV very compatible with a Higgs in this area.

The experimental results don't appear to be materially contradictory. Assuming there isn't an error in the analysis, there appears to be about a 1 in 100 chance that the experiments are due to chance fluctuations in background but this hasn't yet reached the 3-sigma evidence level, never mind the 5-sigma "discovery level".

So, there is a lot more data needing to be collected and there are no Nobel prizes being polished yet, but it looks like we're narrowing in to "firm evidence" of a low mass standard model Higgs at around 125GeV.

Note: A CMS participant's explanation of some terms, linked just for Higgsy, can be found here.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

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#6
So, yesterday's announcement about the Higgs boson. They haven't found it but ...

The ATLAS experiment - working with posited Higgs decays to 2 photons and a more complex decay via a pair of Z bosons into 2 pairs of leptons and anti-leptons - has seen an excess of signals at around 126 GeV, but with a significance (sigma) greater than they would have expected if there was a Standard Model Higgs at that energy. Of course, it may be the Standard Model that is borked.

The CMS experiment - using the same decays as well as W boson / lepton / neutrino, tau and quark / antiquark decays has seen an excess of signals at 124GeV very compatible with a Higgs in this area.

The experimental results don't appear to be materially contradictory. Assuming there isn't an error in the analysis, there appears to be about a 1 in 100 chance that the experiments are due to chance fluctuations in background but this hasn't yet reached the 3-sigma evidence level, never mind the 5-sigma "discovery level".

So, there is a lot more data needing to be collected and there are no Nobel prizes being polished yet, but it looks like we're narrowing in to "firm evidence" of a low mass standard model Higgs at around 125GeV.

Note: A CMS participant's explanation of some terms, linked just for Higgsy, can be found here.
Well, I've looked at my calculations and they say that you're talking out of your arse.
 
#9
Idrach, I'd like to pretend I understood a word of what you wrote, but no, it's all bloody Swahili to me.
 
#10
I have never doubted that the Higg's boson exists...and thanks to "intuition" we have found it...ahem!

Driving home from the office with Bach's Concerto for Oboe & Violin in C minor, BWV1060 on my Bose, I had another flash of "intuition"... We will soon split that little sucker and find it contains gravitons... :)
 
#11
They're still looking in the wrong place, fleeting glimpses of the Higgs have been spotted in the long and protracted 'Are you religious' thread on an obscure forces website. It usually surfaces amongst the chaff to cruelly mock the cognitive failures of mankind before disappearing just as suddenly into the bubbling cauldron of reality.
 
#12
We will soon split that little sucker and find it contains gravitons... :)
Do you mean that (one or more of) the Higgs bosons are composed of gravitons (in a vaguely similar manner to protons being composed of quarks) or that there is a decay path of the Higgs boson that involves gravitons somewhere? If the former is evidenced (not hypothesised), I'll pay £100 to Hol for Heroes and start a thread here entitled "Higgs_bosun was right". Although I reserve the right to append "(for once)".

If the latter, then as we already know that there is a decay path involving protons and, like photons, gravitons can have any energy, then it is trivial. Although gravitons are likely to remain undetectable for some time, as they will be swamped by background signals.
 
#13
Do you mean that (one or more of) the Higgs bosons are composed of gravitons (in a vaguely similar manner to protons being composed of quarks) or that there is a decay path of the Higgs boson that involves gravitons somewhere? If the former is evidenced (not hypothesised), I'll pay £100 to Hol for Heroes and start a thread here entitled "Higgs_bosun was right". Although I reserve the right to append "(for once)".

If the latter, then as we already know that there is a decay path involving protons and, like photons, gravitons can have any energy, then it is trivial. Although gravitons are likely to remain undetectable for some time, as they will be swamped by background signals.

We wont have the energy levels to search for the really tiny bits and pieces....let alone the money.... I reckon the boffins have announced these findings just in time to stop the accountants from closing the circus down...... like the other one the femilab or whatever.
 
#14
It usually surfaces amongst the chaff to ineptly mimic the cognitive failures of mankind before disappearing just as suddenly into the bubbling cauldron of delusions.
Fixed, no need to pay me. Consider it as a public service.
 
#17
Do you mean that (one or more of) the Higgs bosons are composed of gravitons (in a vaguely similar manner to protons being composed of quarks) or that there is a decay path of the Higgs boson that involves gravitons somewhere? If the former is evidenced (not hypothesised), I'll pay £100 to Hol for Heroes and start a thread here entitled "Higgs_bosun was right". Although I reserve the right to append "(for once)".

If the latter, then as we already know that there is a decay path involving protons and, like photons, gravitons can have any energy, then it is trivial. Although gravitons are likely to remain undetectable for some time, as they will be swamped by background signals.
Background signals eh....mutter mutter....I'll just check my maths and get back to you ok...

Fixed, no need to pay me. Consider it as a public service.
I wonder why you don't watch the same Discovery Channel programmes as me...? :) In thirty minutes you can defibrillate your mind and get up to date... To go beyond a singularity requires only an assembly of ideas that fit. It looks like science is closing in on my childhood imagination... a delusion that gravity is a detectable force from beyond calling back anything with mass. Pin pricks in space known as black holes are everywhere... sucking matter into infinite nothingness. It's there that the standard model fails and cognitive strength is required Iddy...move on.
 
#18
I wonder why you don't watch the same Discovery Channel programmes as me...? :) In thirty minutes you can defibrillate your mind and get up to date...
Okay, so you get all of your "understanding" from pop-sci programmes made for one of the most scientifically illiterate nations on Earth. No wonder you consider your drivel "cognitive strength".

Pin pricks in space known as black holes are everywhere...
"Everywhere"? Are you quite sure?
 
#19
Oooh! Where does all that stuff go after it gets sucked into a black hole? Is God claiming His universe back?
 
#20
Oooh! Where does all that stuff go after it gets sucked into a black hole? Is God claiming His universe back?
Higgs_bosun claims it falls in to other dimensions. Actually, it just sits there. And very, very slowly evaporates back out (Hawking radiation).
 
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