Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

CDT Process

Please excuse if this is posted in the incorrect sub-forum, I am not military and your lingo is somewhat confusing in aiding me posting in the relevant place...

I am currently writing a research paper as a part of my PhD in chemistry. One of the subjects is workplace drug testing. As you all know the MoD is arguably the biggest contributor in terms of funding to this process, I am referring to your infamous CDT teams.

It is common knowledge that LGC labs are the contractor responsible for the MoD's collation and initial immunoassay screenings of samples collected by your different units, I, of course, understand in depth the process of testing, and some of the published studies in regards to administrative discharges within the armed forces simply do not sit right with me when I correlate the numbers alongside data with the lab studies themselves.

One year, and I am paraphrasing, I believe I saw 400 soldiers were caught for cocaine misuse on a CDT. This seems unprecedented considering soldiers by nature and career take calculated risks... Even the most sensitive immunoassay screenings with a cut off point of 15ng as opposed to the industry standard 150/300ng tests struggle to detect cocaine and metabolites thereof, after 96 hours!

Why does this shock me?

It makes me believe that soldiers are still using cocaine on a Friday or Saturday evening even though they surely must expect that if the army had any sense a test would be viable on a Monday. I just struggle to believe members of our armed forces are that silly!

Is this indication of a vast drug epidemic within the armed forces?
The 400 were probably the results of 5 SCOTS latest CDT.
 

Mr Tweedy

Old-Salt
Incorrect. I’ve already mentioned GC MS confirmatory tests above. The cost of doing what you mention is huge and a common misconception. GC/MS also requires certain parameters prior to testing.

This is the reason most testing samples will be split down into 3 individual batches. Can not confirm whether or not this is the case for the army.

Which bit is incorrect?. Yes you did mention GC MS as a confirmatory test, but in most drug labs where the result may be used as part of a legally enforceable process, (as opposed to screening for PH reasons for example) immuno-assay (except in as small number of substances, such as Human Growth factor As mentioned) is not considered good enough and a waste of money. Immuno-assay is not significantly cheaper ( in most cases,) than GC MS (particularly where the GC processes are automated) and so inaccurate that using it for drug test that may be part of a disciplinary or legal process is a waste of time. The primary process for most labs that I have commissioned to do this type of work have used GC MS alone.

The reason for using three individual batches is to provide a reserve batch for confirmatory testing and also retest (in case of error/loss of sample), but also to provide a sample for independent testing in the case of a legal challenge, by the subject.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
The 400 were probably the results of 5 SCOTS latest CDT.

IIRC we had 11 caught in 1 KOSB for one CDT, while I was doing the discharge medical run-ups (ironically including a urine test) one lad said he'd go back to dealing in Glasgow - it was a family business apparently
 
be under no illusions, I haven't met many people who have gotten past year one in uni who haven't partaken in some independent studies on this matter. This is I'm sure extended to your hierarchy!

There you go, they know drugs are illegal, yet they do it, and take the risk of not getting caught, most drugs are an addiction, so some are stuck without a way to get clean and come out as such (as they will be discharged from service) some are because something in their system may have been from a substance that is in everyday use but as we are all Olympic Athletes (we have to stick to WADA standards) we get caught out on it.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
Which bit is incorrect?. Yes you did mention GC MS as a confirmatory test, but in most drug labs where the result may be used as part of a legally enforceable process, (as opposed to screening for PH reasons for example) immuno-assay (except in as small number of substances, such as Human Growth factor As mentioned) is not considered good enough and a waste of money. Immuno-assay is not significantly cheaper ( in most cases,) than GC MS (particularly where the GC processes are automated) and so inaccurate that using it for drug test that may be part of a disciplinary or legal process is a waste of time. The primary process for most labs that I have commissioned to do this type of work have used GC MS alone.

The reason for using three individual batches is to provide a reserve batch for confirmatory testing and also retest (in case of error/loss of sample), but also to provide a sample for independent testing in the case of a legal challenge, by the subject.

Perhaps you may be better informed on military processes than I.. however it still doesn’t answer my question as to why so many people are caught within such a small time window.

I can only conclude that some people want to be caught or, and I’m hoping this wouldn’t be true of the armed forces, there is regular users among the ranks, thus extending the 96 hour time frame significantly.

Perhaps I’m being naive in assuming people value their careers more.

I remember reading one case where a soldier had admitted to using cocaine on a Friday night subsequently being tested on Monday for the result to come back as negative. Admittedly his individual metabolism would have played a part but I’ve seen this case after 36 hours in numerous studies.

Am I then to conclude that some people use more frequently than this. That is what is so shocking to me.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
There you go, they know drugs are illegal, yet they do it, and take the risk of not getting caught, most drugs are an addiction, so some are stuck without a way to get clean and come out as such (as they will be discharged from service) some are because something in their system may have been from a substance that is in everyday use but as we are all Olympic Athletes (we have to stick to WADA standards) we get caught out on it.

Good point in regards to performance enhancers, do people get discharged for their use?

Again I am hoping there is no one in the ranks with an actual drug addiction. Also where army policy is archaic and a failure, if someone has a genuine problem help could and should be provided as an alcoholic is just as damaging to the service however as I understand it is acceptable in the military, at least more so than drugs.
Casual drug use seems to me to be a smaller issue than chronic alcoholism. I’ve never been on a rifle range but I think I’d much rather be next to someone on a upper than someone who was drunk...
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Good point in regards to performance enhancers, do people get discharged for their use?

Again I am hoping there is no one in the ranks with an actual drug addiction. Also where army policy is archaic and a failure, if someone has a genuine problem help could and should be provided as an alcoholic is just as damaging to the service however as I understand it is acceptable in the military, at least more so than drugs.
Casual drug use seems to me to be a smaller issue than chronic alcoholism. I’ve never been on a rifle range but I think I’d much rather be next to someone on a upper than someone who was drunk...

help is provided if they ask for it rather than wait until they get caught
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Perhaps you may be better informed on military processes than I.. however it still doesn’t answer my question as to why so many people are caught within such a small time window.

Welcome to ARRSE, where you can find genuine experts on every subject under the sun. In this case, you've just bumped into @Mr Tweedy

May I introduce you to another fine ARRSE tradition - the reversocycle.

1526650299903.jpeg


Let me know when you'll like to start back-pedaling...

Wordsmith
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Again a flaw in policy. Most alcoholics are forced into help. As with any addict. They are not going to ask for help, as by nature, they would not recognise that they have a problem they need help with.

You have no idea what happens in an Army unit, or in any of the medical centres therein. There are a variety of routes people can, have and do use.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
Welcome to ARRSE, where you can find genuine experts on every subject under the sun. In this case, you've just bumped into @Mr Tweedy

May I introduce you to another fine ARRSE tradition - the reversocycle.

View attachment 335062

Let me know when you'll like to start back-pedaling...

Wordsmith
I have nothing to back pedal on. Admittedly the process is, apparently, somewhat different to what I’ve seen before is his posting is accurate. Note that I have worked with reputable labs and been prive to bulk tests in similar industries.

This page seems very Good admittedly however a flaw seems to be the constant barrier put up to outside input. Believe it or not. Not everyone is a troll.

Surely a civilian doubting that so many service men are using illegal substances should be refreshing when public image isn’t exactly the army’s strong point at the moment.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Paging @BugsyIV - standby.

"The department" may need to cancel all leave.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
You have no idea what happens in an Army unit, or in any of the medical centres therein. There are a variety of routes people can, have and do use.

I never claimed to understand army culture. What I have seen is a distinct lack of differentiating between a ‘druggy’ and a ‘drug user’. Forgive me but this makes me doubt whether or not people would feel comfortable seeking help from the hierarchy.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
But that's not what you're doing at all, is it?
I haven’t tried to argue this point, I wanted first hand opinions. By no means was this a leading question. I am just trying to understand the figures in comparison to the navy and Air Force the army seem to be leading on this front.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
I never claimed to understand army culture. What I have seen is a distinct lack of differentiating between a ‘druggy’ and a ‘drug user’. Forgive me but this makes me doubt whether or not people would feel comfortable seeking help from the hierarchy.

maybe you should take your pre-conceived ideas and stick them somewhere suitable. I'd have thought that someone doing research into anything would be researching it rather than arguing their own (ill informed) view on the subject, turns out I was utterly wrong

There, I've admitted I was wrong, your turn.
 

Latest Threads

Top