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CDT Process

WhizKid89

Swinger
what is the equivalent percentage in the same age range in civi life? oh we don't know as only a tiny fraction of them are tested.

I was involved in a the testing process a while ago - certain people were 'randomly' chosen as there was good reason to test them above others in the Regiment.

Every recruit is tested at least once in basic training - it was normally in the first few days of arrival. It wasn't uncommon at all to get admissions of various recreational drugs being used, some tried to bluff their way through it.
One lad had his 'mates' write a letter confessing that they had fed him hash cakes without his knowledge. He was retained but was under no illusion as to where he'd be going if he delivered a positive sample again.

Civil airline pilots are about as good a reference point I can give you.

They also take calculated risks, if you get where I'm going. As do surgeons, Judges, GPs, Lawyers... Just about anyone with a social life in this era!
 
If they are trying to be visible, they're in the wrong rig.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Civil airline pilots are about as good a reference point I can give you.

They also take calculated risks, if you get where I'm going. As do surgeons, Judges, GPs, Lawyers... Just about anyone with a social life in this era!

I may be wrong here, but I believe that airline pilots do not make up the majority of the British population so I'm guessing that any figures relating to them will be as meaningless as this thread
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
I may be wrong here, but I believe that airline pilots do not make up the majority of the British population so I'm guessing that any figures relating to them will be as meaningless as this thread

You are correct, I believe the armed forces are subject to an unfair amount of media and public scrutiny. I am simply, baffled the numbers I am seeing, I thought better of the military, and still have a great deal of faith which is the purpose of this thread.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
The table I was referencing was a single year and a single service. The Army.

The limitations of testing and the numbers caught are frankly staggering.

You sound like a man trying to confirm his preconceptions.

This many not be the best strategy to take for a PhD which requires an impartial analysis of the subject and evidence based conclusions....

Wordsmith
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
You sound like a man trying to confirm his preconceptions.

This many not be the best strategy to take for a PhD which requires an impartial analysis of the subject and evidence based conclusions....

Wordsmith

On the contrary. I am trying to question the evidence available to the public. My preconception is that it’s a misleading figure.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
Shush, he's trying to pretend its a massive problem.

Even though its far worse on civvie street
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ata/file/642738/drug-misuse-2017-hosb1117.pdf

Absolutely not. I personally think problem is the wrong word and just as in society, I think the issues caused by alcohol in the army would far outweigh the issues caused by cocaine. I am by no means trying to imply that it is a massive problem. I am just challenging the information the MOD release to the media.
 
That knowing the likelihood of a logical testing day being a Monday people still do it on weekends. It shocks me that's all.

You can go literally years without a CDT, people take the risk. Recently a cockend in our unit got caught on a Tuesday (having hidden on the Monday CDT).

Some people who want out and/or have signed off don't really care if they get caught.
 
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Mr Tweedy

Old-Salt
Please excuse if this is posted in the incorrect sub-forum, I am not military and your lingo is somewhat confusing in aiding me posting in the relevant place...

I am currently writing a research paper as a part of my PhD in chemistry. One of the subjects is workplace drug testing. As you all know the MoD is arguably the biggest contributor in terms of funding to this process, I am referring to your infamous CDT teams.

It is common knowledge that LGC labs are the contractor responsible for the MoD's collation and initial immunoassay screenings of samples collected by your different units, I, of course, understand in depth the process of testing, and some of the published studies in regards to administrative discharges within the armed forces simply do not sit right with me when I correlate the numbers alongside data with the lab studies themselves.

One year, and I am paraphrasing, I believe I saw 400 soldiers were caught for cocaine misuse on a CDT. This seems unprecedented considering soldiers by nature and career take calculated risks... Even the most sensitive immunoassay screenings with a cut off point of 15ng as opposed to the industry standard 150/300ng tests struggle to detect cocaine and metabolites thereof, after 96 hours!

Why does this shock me?

It makes me believe that soldiers are still using cocaine on a Friday or Saturday evening even though they surely must expect that if the army had any sense a test would be viable on a Monday. I just struggle to believe members of our armed forces are that silly!

Is this indication of a vast drug epidemic within the armed forces?

No you aren't. You are a bluffer. Immuno-assay is normally used for measuring things like Human growth factor etc, which are prohibited by sports governing bodies. That is not tested for by the MOD CDT testing process.

Immuno-assay can be used as a screening test for metabolites of other drugs and is used sometimes in point of care testing for drug rehab programmes etc., but is notoriously inaccurate, with very high false positive (and sometimes false negative rates, depending on the drug) rates.

It is not the method used by most OH drug testing labs in the UK, and is not the method used by CDT. Most of the drugs are tested for using simple Gas Chromatography, which has a much higher specificity and accuracy.

But then If you are doing a PhD in chemistry specialising in this you would know that already.

I suspect you are either fishing for a reaction and therefore a troll, or a journo fishing for info.
 

WhizKid89

Swinger
No you aren't. You are a bluffer. Immuno-assay is normally used for measuring things like Human growth factor etc, which are prohibited by sports governing bodies. That is not tested for by the MOD CDT testing process.

Immuno-assay can be used as a screening test for metabolites of other drugs and is used sometimes in point of care testing for drug rehab programmes etc., but is notoriously inaccurate, with very high false positive (and sometimes false negative rates, depending on the drug) rates.

It is not the method used by most OH drug testing labs in the UK, and is not the method used by CDT. Most of the drugs are tested for using simple Gas Chromatography, which has a much higher specificity and accuracy.

But then If you are doing a PhD in chemistry specialising in this you would know that already.

I suspect you are either fishing for a reaction and therefore a troll, or a journo fishing for info.

Incorrect. I’ve already mentioned GC MS confirmatory tests above. The cost of doing what you mention is huge and a common misconception. GC/MS also requires certain parameters prior to testing.

This is the reason most testing samples will be split down into 3 individual batches. Can not confirm whether or not this is the case for the army.
 
Every recruit is tested at least once in basic training - it was normally in the first few days of arrival.
Not the case any more actually. I was never tested once at catterick, and when it does happen there it’s never before at least a couple of weeks in, I forget how many weeks but I think 2-4 , reason given was that if they tested before that it could pick something up you’d taken before you arrived, and they couldn’t bin you for doing drugs as a civvy.
It’s immaterial anyway because I know of a few cases at catterick of recruits failing cdt and being kept in, with no more punishment than a backsquadding
EDIT: it was always said, not sure as to the truth of it, but it was always said that recruits in rehab platoon were never cdted because of the number of them on painkillers and that would have shown them all as failures. I know you can declare that sort of thing so it seems unlikely that would really be the policy, but recruits on rehab are in a completely different system to the rest so it could be
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Not the case any more actually. I was never tested once at catterick, and when it does happen there it’s never before at least a couple of weeks in, I forget how many weeks but I think 2-4 , reason given was that if they tested before that it could pick something up you’d taken before you arrived, and they couldn’t bin you for doing drugs as a civvy.
It’s immaterial anyway because I know of a few cases at catterick of recruits failing cdt and being kept in, with no more punishment than a backsquadding

when I was at an ATR each case was on it's individual merits - some were hoofed out however plenty were kept, of course thereafter normal CDT rules apply.
 

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