CDT failure- A growing problem?

#1
The number of soldiers failing CDT seems to be growing, with many stating that 'all their civvy mates do it'. This is losing us hundreds of trained soldiers each year, some of whom are perfectly capable in every other way, and may have only taken drugs once.

Is it time we relaxed our attitude to drugs to bring it in line with our attitude to alcohol (e.g. don't get involved unless it interferes with work)?
 
#2
Drugs are always bad news mate, going to effect your work someway or other.

One problem I notice is the quantity of weed that's around in ublic places, been in many a bar where I've smelt it and no doubt inhaled a significant amount passively, if I failed CDT because of that then it would be somewhat upsetting. Answer is stay away from such places but it's too late by the time you notice it.
 
#3
They can't be that well trained if they cannot follow a simple order such as 'Don't take drugs'.
Admittedly, one of the first things I did after leaving was to get stoned, but I never, ever did it whilst serving. A pension is a hell of a thing to throw away.
 
#4
i was in the army 14 yrs and recently left, i did not honestly know anyone that was taking drugs throughout my career apart from the first year or two in training. are the figures that bad??

the majority i knew did not touch the stuff, we hear the stories about other regt's etc but the only one i heard really was about the LD.

is it really that much of a problem in the forces?? :roll:

or is it that in the later part of my career as a Cpl and a SNCO then the younger lads would obviously do it without my knowledge in the block etc??
 
#5
ArmySurplusSpecial said:
is it really that much of a problem in the forces?? :roll:

or is it that in the later part of my career as a Cpl and a SNCO then the younger lads would obviously do it without my knowledge in the block etc??
It seems to be mostly taken on leave rather than in the block, and almost exclusively limited to young private soldiers, who have no thought for careers, pensions, etc, I take the point on discipline, but soldiers have always got into trouble when p*ssed, it just seems the opportunity to take drugs in civvy clubs etc is much greater than it used to be.
 
#6
I've seen three soldiers in my Troop discharged through failing CDT, two for cocaine and one for cannabis. :(

All three did it on leave and got caught out by one of the many CDT's we have at my unit (average=one a month). :?

If you want to take drugs, leave the Army - I've got no time for people put others lives in unnecessary danger. :x

ps - passive smoking of cannabis would not lead to levels high enough to fail CDT - it needs to be directly inhaled/ingested.

CH
 
#7
If you want to take drugs get out of the army.

I've been in plenty of situations where drugs were freely on offer, in fact, it was kind of frowned upon if you didn't take them, and yet I took a certain pride in saying 'no thanks, I'd rather get pissed'. end of the day, it's more fun getting hammered than sitting around giggling like an idiot.
 
#8
The USN had a drugs problem with a SEAL Plt last year. Recently the LT was
tried and convicted by a Courts Martial thus ending a promising craeer. A number of other members of the platoon received lesser punishments.
 
#9
ArmySurplusSpecial said:
or is it that in the later part of my career as a Cpl and a SNCO then the younger lads would obviously do it without my knowledge in the block etc??
Spot on

This isn't a new problem; I remember being in BFG circa 88 - 92 where you could walk down one of 5 blocks on a Saturday night and smell some of Amsterdams finest going up in smoke. Guys used to seal the door frames with black nasty to stop the smoke escaping!!

A lot of the junior and senior NCO's turned a blind eye to it at the time (especially the juniors seen as some of them were also the perpetrators) as I can honestly say that with one exception (and he was a c0ck that seemed to skip the "soft" drugs and jumped straight to Ecstasy), there was no detrimental effect to the day to day running of the troops. I would rather no more depend on a guy that was stoned the night before than depend on a guy that tips up for first parade 3 hours after he came off the p1ss.

Not condoning it in the slightest. I personally got stoned 3 times during the entire 4 years that I was in BFG, all 3 times being in Amsterdam and being in the company of some that are now a long way up the promotional ladder. It wasn't big and it wasn't clever but neither was it uncommon. If I wanted to I could walk out of the door now and get hold of a joint within 5 minutes. I don’t because that particular “scene” has disappeared along with my teenage and early 20’s years. Unfortunately, that scene is also the one that is particularly attractive to our late teens to early twenties soldiers.

Personally I think that the CDT route is the right route. It's illegal (albeit condoned with soft drugs) on civvie street and the Mil by its very nature needs to be harder than civvie street. If you want to be a soldier and yet still act like a civvie when socialising, well you takes your chances and don't have any right to whine about it if you get caught.
 
#10
Simple question for those who are currently serving:

Would you want to rely on someone who abuses drugs if your life possibly depended on their actions?

I bloody well wouldn't.

There is no place for illegal drugs in the armed forces.
 
#11
I'm with you on that oddbod. Do drugs, get caught, get the fcuk out of my army. Regardless of how well they were doing.

Also a bit of advertising might help.

I know of several people being binned after CDT, but could't tell you what they had or any other details. The CO/OC/RSM parading the unit and saying, Sig Buttplug of 1 tp, A Sqn got caught with crack in his p*ss. He has lost his pension, job, etc. He will be off camp in 12 hours. Might, just might, make another kid think.

stjohn_knobrocket wrote

Is it time we relaxed our attitude to drugs to bring it in line with our attitude to alcohol (e.g. don't get involved unless it interferes with work)?
No way relax our attitude. Just because the civvies do it... fcuk off. I say again Do drugs, get caught, get the fcuk out of my army.
 
#12
The stats for that age group imbibing in illegal substances in frighteningly high these days - 1 in 100 11 year olds have tried it, 1 in 20 12 year olds...... and that data is a few years old now.

I suspect that your young soldiers maybe find it a bit harder to make the transition inot the zero tolerance environment of the military than we did 20 years ago.

That said, I would still support the zero tolerance policy - the fewer illegal substances take the better for their general health and that's got to be a good thing.
 
#13
chocolate_frog said:
The CO/OC/RSM parading the unit and saying, Sig Buttplug of 1 tp, A Sqn got caught with crack in his p*ss. He has lost his pension, job, etc. He will be off camp in 12 hours. Might, just might, make another kid think.
I agree, CDT failures?? Never heard of any directly only through word of mouth. If it was more open it might deter other people form doing the same. And dont ffs give me but its the caught person's right not to have thier issues outed in front of an entire regiment Feck em the minute someone takes drugs they stop being a reasonable human being.
 
#14
Would you not think that binge drinking is having the same kind of effect. Maybee we need to bring in some kind of booze testing. I am the first to admit to a bit of binge drinking now and then, but the state some people turn up in the morning and unable to work very well is an understatement.
 
#15
stjohn_knobrocket said:
Is it time we relaxed our attitude to drugs to bring it in line with our attitude to alcohol (e.g. don't get involved unless it interferes with work)?
Quite simply - No.

Once you allow one illegal activity, it becomes a very slippery slope. If you allow drugs (which are still illegal) why not allow soldiers to mug people, break into houses etc so long as it 'does'nt interfere with work'. [I know it already happens in certain Inf Regts, but that is not the point]

Bear in mind that even in Holland, drugs are still banned in the armed forces. Drugs are not legal in Holland, they have just been decriminalised? The same proposal has been made for the UK - I believe that the position in the army would be the same.
 
#16
There is a difference between say a SNCO being caught and a private soldier who has just qualified. Some units make the distinction better than others I think.

In my opinion, there is a case for junior soldiers to be disciplined and educated rather than discharged. In civvy street, they would not even get a slap on the wrist for some offences. It's one of those areas where the Army can't have a one size fits all policy.
 
#17
I can understand why the CDT rate is increasing, based upon evidence in my local watering hole, [A working class - stinking shit hole pub not far from 'The New Den'] it has a sign stating the use/selling of drugs will lead to banning from pub and police involvement.... Despite this every Friday by 11pm, there is always a strong smell of hash in the air. Not been too bothered but over the past 2 years, have seen more and more upon use of coke.

Fundamentally we cannot wrap the troops up and stop them being exposed to the pressure of using the stuff, we know that squaddies are prolific drinkers and seem to have lots of cash to burn. Since coke is used more and more to sustain a night out on lash, and is relatively cheap, if their civi mates are doing it, the balance of risk (whilst on leave) might be enough to persuade them to take it, given that coke leaves the system a lot quicker than Hash.

It is social acceptance and the impact this has off base that I think led to increase. Despite this Drink is as dangerous to morale, general health and military discipline, imagine being breathalysed before going on the Range. Might make a few people think....
 
#18
how about anyone caught out on a CDT being given the option of an experience something akin to the "motorcycle training centre" but with the added bonus of weekly testing , and rehab , i WILL NOT use the word counselli.....bugger .

from my experience in BFG in the early 90's it was all a bit hit and miss , we had a "G.D." troop , which was blokes suspected .... not proven, to be drug users , there were about 30 odd blokes in it , who had to wear coveralls , and no beret , and got basically every sh*tty job going , all this without a test !!! .
offences ranged from "looking a bit sleepy"
to "liking that f*cking house music" , all scientific stuff , and basically an excuse to thin out anyone who's face didnt fit , that isn't to say they were as pure as the driven snow (pardon the pun) and neither was i , i think there is definetley a case for CDT's to be done , but maybe a gypsies and a beasting , followed by re-education , and regular retesting??

or am i just being a dope smoking pinko civvy ?? :D
 
E

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#19
I'm inclined to agree with Shortfuse. Anyone above the rank of say Cpl should get the boot immediately but it might be sensible to give a second chance to younger soldiers who get caught - combined with a strict regime of re-testing, rehab if required, and so on.
 
#20
chickenpunk said:
I'm inclined to agree with Shortfuse. Anyone above the rank of say Cpl should get the boot immediately but it might be sensible to give a second chance to younger soldiers who get caught - combined with a strict regime of re-testing, rehab if required, and so on.
I thought this was what happened anyway....

msr
 
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