CCRF ... UK Ops...

#1
I hear they've been supporting the police forces today....

TA - Taxi Agency .... I see the move from mini buses to wolfs has proved useful...
 
#2
Where ? All I've seen is the Coastguard out delivering meals on wheels.

It might be news to the gubmint but the civpop do expect the Army to help out in these situations. "Sorry, my minibus is stuck and anyway I can only help if there is direct threat to life and you'll get a bill an'all" does not cut it. Thatcherite economics, There is no such thing as Society.....
 
#3
There has been army support but it varies by brigade and military community. Aldershot's military presence is at such a critical mass that helping out is more proactive.

CCRF is dead, and rightly so, as its role was as follow on pillar 3 force elements which more capable regular units could deliver quicker
 
#4
I can see the ATUD now

Description of journey - 36 Rosamund street to Spar
Authorised passengers - Mrs Brown and Edith from number 36.
 
#5
I heard it was ferrying coppers around, using 4x4 wolfs. CCRF was wrong see police didn't want comms in mini buses, they just want lr drivers just like the re...
 
#6
Oh gods, please dont tell me that people out there still think CCRF exists?

The CCRF is dead, finished, disbanded - there is no such organisation as CCRF in the UK Armed Forces anymore. Please, let it go!
 
#7
^Quite a lot of posters on this site think UK Ops still exists.... (and I think some in 2 Sig Bde do ..or I'm very wrong)
 
#8
^Quite a lot of posters on this site think UK Ops still exists.... (and I think some in 2 Sig Bde do ..or I'm very wrong)
UK Ops does exist, jim30's point is that one aspect (CCRF the provision of TA force elements to provide GD or other roles) has gone. 2 Sig Bde provides secure voice and date to mil assets involved in it.
The previous rule of thumb (slightly bent when the barker bridge was built in Cumbria last year) was that the military was a last resort, used in the response phase (not recovery) and that costs would be raised (either full, partial or waived).
Without going too deep into JDP02, the roles fall into 3 pillars: liaison (TA elements in the form of BRT contribute), Communications (2 Sig Bde) and Force Elements.
There has been a change in tone, in that last resort has now morphed to Military aid should only be provided where the need for someone to act is clear and where other options have been discounted by the Civil Responder. The use of mutual aid, other agencies and the private sector must be insufficient or unsuitable

One future problem is that with increasing capabilities and experience throught out Cat 1 Responders, the military may be asked in time to attend a situation where their enhanced capabilities have failed and what we bring to the table is not sufficient to bridge the gap between disaster and resolution.
 
#11
One future problem is that with increasing capabilities and experience throught out Cat 1 Responders, the military may be asked in time to attend a situation where their enhanced capabilities have failed and what we bring to the table is not sufficient to bridge the gap between disaster and resolution.
One issue is that Mr & Mrs Joe Public still think we will respond. Another is that when we did used to respond we did so with a bit of gusto, a get the job done attitude and some kit. Now, if tasked, we will respond with a few minibuses and a full-on Council Employee Elf & Safety mindset - so we'll be as useless as the Civil Authorities we are supposed to be supporting. - Best example of which recently was the dick from Strathclyde Fire and Rescue who let a woman die, having fallen down a mineshaft, while waiting for the ( civilian volunteer) Mountain Rescue Team to come. Firemen can climb up - but not down, obviously.


Just heard folk on the radio, stuck in traffic on the M8 for 7 hours.... "This is a national emergency, where is the Army...."
 
#13
BBC saying tonight that the Army has been asked to provide 4x4s and drivers to ferry paramedics about up here in Scotland.

The motorway network in the central belt seems to have collapsed today, with snow arriving over the morning rush-hour. Many people still stuck after 8-10 hours.
 
#14
BBC saying tonight that the Army has been asked to provide 4x4s and drivers to ferry paramedics about up here in Scotland.

The motorway network in the central belt seems to have collapsed today, with snow arriving over the morning rush-hour. Many people still stuck after 8-10 hours.
And the Ambulance Service in Scotland can't be as stupid as to 'forget' that it does snow. They, along with the other emergency services, should have contingency plans and not rely on the Armed Forces.
 
#15
A They, along with the other emergency services, should have contingency plans and not rely on the Armed Forces.
On the other hand HM Taxpayer has stumped up hard cash for those green fleet vehicles sitting in Redford, Dreghorn & Penicuik. They also pay the wages of the jocks. I'd say that the taxpayer has a good call on getting a shot of those resources when required ? Better economic sense than having NHS Scotland buy a fleet of 4x4 ambulances ? - although the majority of paramedic vehicles I've seen tend to be 4x4 "softroaders".
 
#16
On the other hand HM Taxpayer has stumped up hard cash for those green fleet vehicles sitting in Redford, Dreghorn & Penicuik. They also pay the wages of the jocks. I'd say that the taxpayer has a good call on getting a shot of those resources when required ? Better economic sense than having NHS Scotland buy a fleet of 4x4 ambulances ? - although the majority of paramedic vehicles I've seen tend to be 4x4 "softroaders".
But those green fleet or the personnel to drive them aren't always there so what is the contingency plan? The Ambulance Service either owns or has access to off-road vehicles - unless it's Business Continuity Plan for snow and Jocks being deployed happening at the same time is to let people die.

I have no issue with the Armed forces being used when genuinely required but far too frequently the first reaction of so-called emergency planners is to ask for the Army - and more importantly not realising they are not necessarily always there!
 
#17
but far too frequently the first reaction of so-called emergency planners is to ask for the Army - and more importantly not realising they are not necessarily always there!
Yes we are, we live there ;)

msr
 
#18
This isn't really UK Ops though is it. It's just another government department extending a logical and sensible hand.
Something, as a tax payer I'd expect to happen. It's my(/our) money and not some penny pinchers.

Just a random thought... would it be better if TA in Scotland, Wales, Government of Yorkshire & Humberside, etc funded TA units. Primarily to give support to UK army but secondly to provide support to themselves (Isn't this how it used to work ... it's a bit ANG)
 
#19
But those green fleet or the personnel to drive them aren't always there so what is the contingency plan? The Ambulance Service either owns or has access to off-road vehicles - unless it's Business Continuity Plan for snow and Jocks being deployed happening at the same time is to let people die.

I have no issue with the Armed forces being used when genuinely required but far too frequently the first reaction of so-called emergency planners is to ask for the Army - and more importantly not realising they are not necessarily always there!
would have to disagree with the last comment. elsewhere in the country, NHS/ambulance trusts have made agreements with volunteer 4x4 groups for mobility (google volunteer 4x4 for various groups and for this linky Highland drivers sign up for 4×4 volunteer service | Moray Firth Live ). the use of mil 4x4 for paramedic mobility implies that the volunteer arrangements in central highlands may not be sufficient for the speed and assurance of response required.
NHS/Ambulance trust will be paying for the service either at full or waived costs - hence why volunteer groups are popular!

Saladin's point on taxpayer's money spent on the army being used to support the UK population in extremis is one that is getting a bit more mileage, and adds to the rationale for not totally emascualting the expeditioanry army and TA post herrick (the standard template used by british governments post conflict since the 1700s)
 
#20
Two points... I can't resist.

On ICSC(L) we had a very good Resilience study period, including two days with first-responders and planners. The upshot was that the Army doesn't always have the skills that are needed, in the right place at the right time, and the cost that the Army accrues is definitely (edited to add NOT) NOT worth it for a source of manpower.

Second point. Edinburgh may appear to be a useful source of manpower, but a month ago, only 1 of the 3 units would have been available... not something to plan on. I don't think any of the units have the snowploughs, gritters and other specialist equipments that might be called upon.
 
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