CCF Uniforms, Regulations thereof.

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by RP578, Jul 21, 2011.

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  1. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    I have been asked to put together sets of uniform accoutrements for a local CCF unit affiliated to our capbadge, but no-one from their contingent commander on down seems to be aware of the definitive rules on what CCF cadets are supposed to wear on No.2 Dress. For example; the cadets wear a sew-on CCF shoulder flash, so do they also wear a our Regt'l epaulette titles and if so, do they need 'CCF' ones also?

    Another question raised concerned stable belts. Do they wear the affiliated regt'l one or the CCF one? What about instructors? Would be grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction, be that via DII/Westminster. I am mindful that the CCF unit does not have a bottomless wallet and, genuinely trying to be helpful, I don't want to start ordering things for them that they don't need.

    Thank you in advance.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Or, indeed, RP578, if after the issue of digital to replace 95's, whether cadets will be allowed to wear No2 Dress(or its replacement), either!

    Your unit would do well to check with Brigade on the future of other than combats, as current thinking is that Cadet Forces, with the exception of senior officers and a few senior cadets for special occasions, may be instructed combats all the way.

    (It will never happen of course, and the initial ruling excluding the wearing of existing kit by CFAVs has already been modified!)

    In general terms, and looking at existing variations between CCF's, if your unit keeps a reasonably low profile, and checks it out with your sponsors unit current CO, the odds are that nobody will care or notice,and merely assum it is down to some tradition!
     
  3. Sky blue AAC beret
    Para reg badge with maroon backing
    Khaki stone shirts
    Royal Blue silk cravat (I kid you not...)
    Lightweights. OG
    Para reg stable belt
    Boots DMS and puttees.

    That sartorial abomination, designed by a fascist dictator IYAM, was the parade uniform of Royal Russell School CCF in the late 70s/early 80s.

    Offered merely as a comment...and a warning as to what happens when things get out of control
     
  4. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Well, yes. This is the sort of thing I'm trying to avoid by finding out the rules. Alas there doesn't seem to be a Cadet version of JSP 336. The CCF staff are happy enough for their kids to wear replicas of our uniform, but with shoulder flashes identifying them as CCF. I just don't want to send the stuff to wear if it's going to set them up for a fall, although to be fair I don't know when they'd actually wear them outside of school.

    Just had a thought, would rules for cadets actually be in JSP 336?
     
  5. Tom_dkg,

    What are "digitals"? Are we issuing cadets 1980s wristwatches?
     
  6. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Little fingers?
     
  7. The cadets wear exactly the same Number 2 dress as your regiment in every detail with the added curved sew on CCF mudguard thing on their sleeve.

    The adults wear exactly the same No 2 dress uniform as your regiment in every detail bar the addition of CCF shoulder titles worn beneath the rank and regimental title which they will already have.

    In working dress ,same again no change but regimental rank slides with the added CCF beneath.
    NO TRFs or brigade badges..

    Cadets wearing stable belts is the contingent commanders call,but mostly this would be cadet sgts and above and adults only .
    Its his shout.

    Hope this helps...
     
  8. :)

    I didnlt wish to quote present army issue, as I would not be surprised to see, by the time this is on issue to the CF's, a cheap similar but different pattern!
     
  9. Unfortunately each CCF will probably have slightly different dress regs and will be down to the Contingent Commander. Generally speaking cadets and cfavs will wear wear all the things that their affiliated regiment/corps wear with the addition of CCF titles and minus TRFs and brigade badges. They will more than likely wear the stable belt of the affiliated regiment/corps rather than the CCF belt but again this will be down to the Contingent Commander.
     
  10. It seems strange no one in the continget can read the dress regs as they can be found in JSP313 (IIRC) and state quite clearly what can and can't be worn. The contingent should hold a copy of this tome. Sounds more like they want to 'cuff it' and try to encroach on the dress regs, it is more comon than you'd imagine.

    Talon, CCF dress regs are not as strict as ACF, this comes from the unique nature of the CCF (being effectively distinct units, similar to UOTC (after all they were the oTC Junior Div at one point) but it is certainly not up to the contingent commander to make it up as he goes along.

    However, they should DEFINITLY have CCF on their uniform, either below the rank for adults (usually in brass) or across the top of a shoulder for cadets and adults if no brass ones are worn.

    These titles can be in regt'l colours if affiliated or any colour the school wants or brass, but they must have CCF in there. I think red and white ones can come through the system, other colours must be bought at school expense.

    Normally it is something like 'blah blah school CCF', But can be 'the Loamshire and Blanks CCF'. Generally most schools get their name in there TBH.

    These are a MUST. Adults and Cadets have to have CCF on their uniform, either under the pips/crown or on the shoulder. Technically the SSI should too, but in practice they er, forget. But as they are all usually crusty 22+ year WOs they are probably senile! :D

    Collar dogs, buttons and headdress can be adopted, and stable belts in some dresses, but that is it. Backing to capbadges is another oddity. Cadets usually don't wear them, but the adults often do. ie Gren guards CCF, cadets didn't adults did... but then again the adults wore the guards trf which is a DEFINITE NO NO.

    As a rule most wear the CCF stable belt, or their own, for cadets, maybe using regtl for adults.

    If a battle honour or similar or similar badge is worn on the no2s unifomr of the 'adult' unit, the CCF can not wear it. For example, the Staffords wear a glider, their affiliated cadets can not.

    Green belts are worn. not too sure on their status, but some units wear the regimental ones. I suppose it depends if you can get them. Not too sure on the state of play with lanyards... I think they can be worn.

    Get in touch with the schools Cadet Training Team, they can point you in the right direction even if the school can't. Drop us a PM if you need any extra help (ex-CTT).
     
  11. Out of interest, why do the adults feel a need to differentiate from what their cadets wear?

    Why is it that the regimental belt is too good for the kids but fine for the adults? Surely the adults are equally members of the CCF as the kids and no more members of the regiment than the kids. Same for TRFs. Surely if one can the other can? Or do people just like to look 'the real deal' whilst doing their best to make sure the kids look more similar to the scouts than their affiliated regiment?

    I've definitely seen some funny CCF uniform things going on, with 1st years joining one capbadge then becoming a different one in the second (within the same Army section). And as you say, the SSI kinda lives on their own regulations. Often too do other former serving teachers / volunteers. But in the way that CCFs work as 'independent' units generally, I would personally be of the opinion that it doesn't do half as much harm as it would do in the over-political ACF / ATC etc.
     
  12. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Many thanks SLP & CF.

    CF, I have actually checked JSP313 Chapter 6, but apart from clearly stating that both cadets and Instructors should wear CCF iedntifiers, it is actually pretty short on specifics.

    I guess this particular contingent is pretty good in that regard. The SSI is also a junior rank in the TA and wears his TA uniform and uses his junior rank rather than the CSjt CCF one he is entitled to. One of the Teachers is also a Capt in the TA (a rank he achieved in the Regs) which is the same regiment as his CCF contingent is affiliated to, so he wears his rank sans CCF 'subtitles' as he's entitled to.

    The only potential drama is that they want heir kids to look a bit ally by wearing stable belts etc., and thereby might be inadvertantly setting the kids up to crossing a line. To be fair, both the instructors and the kids are (barring a couple of exceptions) mindful and respectful of the difference between the CCF and the Armed Forces, which was nice to witness.
     
  13. Surely its exactly the same as regimental dress regs, just with the addition of CCF titles and no tactical/ brigade flashes.
     
  14. I've just spent the last 2 training nights at a rifles ACF det... and the cadets are wearing the back badges
     
  15. Ahh. Gloster. Their County Commandant or someone wants it done so it is done. No other Rifles wear it so.