CCF ND

#1
Today our CCF went on a standard range day to Hythe Ranges i couldnt go because i had to catch up on some A level work. When they get back i heard that a cadet had a an ND with a live round and the cadet in the next lane saw a puff of dust in front of her worrying stuff...

In the Army i believe that an ND is a chargable offence but in the CCF isit a bootable offence or does the cadet just get banned from range days or vigorously retrained. Note this cadet already nearly shot someone with a blank in a previous incident at which i was present.
 
#4
I would be shocked to discover that a known and published procedure for this sort of thing did not exist - and as a cadet you don't need to worry about it.

This needs to be managed as a risk and not in the context of being a chargeable offence (because this is a minor that we are discussing). Do you really want your friend charged?
 
#5
Said cadet needs to have passed a weapons handling test if he hasn't then he shouldn't be firing.

It sounds like some re-training is in order and an investigation into how said Negligent discharge has occurred, In my small experience some body has usually fallen down on the job when this happens be it the firer not being confident in his drills or his instructors getting a little slap dash with theirs.
 
#6
Victorian_Major said:
I would be shocked to discover that a known and published procedure for this sort of thing did not exist - and as a cadet you don't need to worry about it.

This needs to be managed as a risk and not in the context of being a chargeable offence (because this is a minor that we are discussing). Do you really want your friend charged?
don't worry mate im not one for being a knob was just curious. forgot about him being a minor aswell. Probably just needs some more training
 
#7
tommy_cooker said:
Victorian_Major said:
I would be shocked to discover that a known and published procedure for this sort of thing did not exist - and as a cadet you don't need to worry about it.

This needs to be managed as a risk and not in the context of being a chargeable offence (because this is a minor that we are discussing). Do you really want your friend charged?
don't worry mate im not one for being a knob was just curious. forgot about him being a minor aswell. Probably just needs some more training
Good for you. The truth is that if Cdts arrse around on the ranges or have bad drills then the most likely outcome is less range days and less exciting serials on those days.
 
#8
Victorian_Major said:
tommy_cooker said:
Victorian_Major said:
I would be shocked to discover that a known and published procedure for this sort of thing did not exist - and as a cadet you don't need to worry about it.

This needs to be managed as a risk and not in the context of being a chargeable offence (because this is a minor that we are discussing). Do you really want your friend charged?
don't worry mate im not one for being a knob was just curious. forgot about him being a minor aswell. Probably just needs some more training
Good for you. The truth is that if Cdts arrse around on the ranges or have bad drills then the most likely outcome is less range days and less exciting serials on those days.
ANY cadets that arses around on my watch will have the rifle taken off him/her and told to sit at the back, if he/she cries so what, safety is first and last , no inbetween.
 
#9
Probably some retraining/minor bollocking.

Realistically, it will happen to anyone who does enough shooting. I must have shot tens of thousands of rounds and I've had two NDs. One, on a civvy range I got out of phase with an unfamiliar weapon and fired it whilst unloading it.
Second, whilst out shooting rabbits I went to wipe some blood off the rifle with my handkerchief (it was off my hand after I'd picked a shot rabbit up.) True negligence on my part, I managed to catch the trigger and sent a round off into the ground 30 yds in front of me. Gave myself an almighty and well deserved bollocking for being complacent and sloppy in my weapon handling. It goes to show though - it can and will happen - usually when circumstances knock you out of your regular routine and drills.

If the cadet is a complete noob then just bin him using your standard binning procedure (verbal warning, written warning etc.)
 
#10
tommy_cooker said:
Today our CCF went on a standard range day to Hythe Ranges i couldnt go because i had to catch up on some A level work. When they get back i heard that a cadet had a an ND with a live round and the cadet in the next lane saw a puff of dust in front of her worrying stuff...

In the Army i believe that an ND is a chargable offence but in the CCF isit a bootable offence or does the cadet just get banned from range days or vigorously retrained. Note this cadet already nearly shot someone with a blank in a previous incident at which i was present.
Take him through skill at arms again until he seems confident enough. Make sure he is under close supervision on a range even if it means having an adult with him when he carrys out the drills.. It is dangerous but sh1t happens, just persevere with the lad.
 
#11
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
 
#12
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
 
#13
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
 
#14
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
 
#15
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
The staff are there to babysit! That's they're job whilst on the range.
 
#16
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
The staff are there to babysit! That's they're job whilst on the range.
So you would enjoy staff holding your rifle, you are misunderstanding me. Surley they arent there to hold evrey individuals rifle, and when there is a lot of firers I can imagine doing a mass nsp to come off the point can be quite hard. ( I don't know, I have never being part of range staff, just what I thought)
 
#17
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
The staff are there to babysit! That's they're job whilst on the range.
So you would enjoy staff holding your rifle, you are misunderstanding me. Surley they arent there to hold evrey individuals rifle, and when there is a lot of firers I can imagine doing a mass nsp to come off the point can be quite hard. ( I don't know, I have never being part of range staff, just what I thought)
Of course they're not going to hold the rifles for them you mong. But when on the firing point it's not hard to see if someone's not point down range, just by the way they're stood. Trust me. Bad staff, as well as bad drills by the cadet.
 
#18
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
The staff are there to babysit! That's they're job whilst on the range.
So you would enjoy staff holding your rifle, you are misunderstanding me. Surley they arent there to hold evrey individuals rifle, and when there is a lot of firers I can imagine doing a mass nsp to come off the point can be quite hard. ( I don't know, I have never being part of range staff, just what I thought)
Of course they're not going to hold the rifles for them you mong. But when on the firing point it's not hard to see if someone's not point down range, just by the way they're stood. Trust me. Bad staff, as well as bad drills by the cadet.
Yep I agree bad drills by both cadet and staff. Cadet shouldn't be on range again for a while and at the least must be made to go through all of skill at arms again. Range staff should also take into account what happened.
 
#19
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
Well actually they are. It is a group of minors on the range, not trained soldiers. The range staff must be totally focused on safety and safety procedures when dealing with, basically, children with lethal weapons.

It matters not a jot whether that group have passed a WHT in the last 10 minutes or 10 weeks, they have the retention and attention span of a goldfish.

I've had grown adults with countless days on the ranges make a fcuk up, so don't assume that a child is going to be any different just because they have passed a WHT.
 
#20
devilish said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
5.56mm said:
smudge67 said:
The range staff should get a hiding, as his weapon couldn't have been "pointing down range at all times" if he was NDing into the next to him (obviously depends on how far down the lane the "puff" was?)
Range staff shouldnt have to hold the rifles for cadets, so you can hardly blame them.
Have you been on a range?!?! It is the range staffs duty to ensure that the range is conducted safely, therefore they should be making sure that rifles are down range at all time. That's the most basic range safety lesson there is!!
Yep I have being on a range. I think you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you, what I meant is that the staff shouldnt have to hold the rifle down the range for them, they should tell them to point it down the range, if the cadets are unable off such a simple task they shouldn't be on a range. The staff aren't there to babysit.
Well actually they are. It is a group of minors on the range, not trained soldiers. The range staff must be totally focused on safety and safety procedures when dealing with, basically, children with lethal weapons.

It matters not a jot whether that group have passed a WHT in the last 10 minutes or 10 weeks, they have the retention and attention span of a goldfish.

I've had grown adults with countless days on the ranges make a fcuk up, so don't assume that a child is going to be any different just because they have passed a WHT.
Ok, I stand corrected.
 
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