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CCA

#1
Just a quick question. In these times of skintness why do we spend millions on sending guys to the states on Crimson Eagle to learn CCA?
I can think of plenty of other things, that we would use, that would be cheaper and that are more relevant.
 
#3
Widow_69 said:
Just a quick question. In these times of skintness why do we spend millions on sending guys to the states on Crimson Eagle to learn CCA?
I can think of plenty of other things, that we would use, that would be cheaper and that are more relevant.
Widow 69 - if you've been on Crimson Eagle then you know it's not our exercise. Its one of the AAC's PDT serials. We just jump on because the airframes are there and are live firing - hence we are saving money by combining two PDT activities in one exercise!!
 
#5
Widow_69 said:
Arh I see,my error. Ive been on it yet. Just heard that CCA is not really used as the JTAC takes the lead.
again..... misinformation.... everybody in the FSTmust be CCA competant, and every man at the gun end should be able to carry out ECCA.
 
#6
As Master Gunner has stated all elements of an FST are CCA trained. However CCA is very rarely used. Rotary CAS from the JTAC or from the TACP is the most common and safest way to control AH. I cannot recall the last time a CCA controller controlled AH with Kenetic effect. Widow_69 with a name like that you should know all about it.
 
#7
Well that is pretty high. Was that due to no JTAC available? I know FSE's are pretty common now due to lack of FST's. Im just after an update for my PDT.
 
#8
tally_target said:
Well that is pretty high. Was that due to no JTAC available? I know FSE's are pretty common now due to lack of FST's. Im just after an update for my PDT.
not lack of FSTs..... just an abundance of tasklines
 
#10
tally_target said:
As Master Gunner has stated all elements of an FST are CCA trained. However CCA is very rarely used. Rotary CAS from the JTAC or from the TACP is the most common and safest way to control AH. I cannot recall the last time a CCA controller controlled AH with Kenetic effect. Widow_69 with a name like that you should know all about it.
CCA is not 'controlled', rather a target indication for the AH to act upon under his own ROE. This is the fundamental difference between the two disciplines, hence the differing training/currency requirements.
 
#12
Well lots of lads in my corp that are CCA trained have visions of'' bringing the rain'' as a full time job. Where I have had to complete a 5 week FAC course, numerous other training events and a CR course to have the same effect.Seems that someone will be let down a little,and it wont be me.
 
#13
mastergnr said:
Widow_69 said:
Just a quick question. In these times of skintness why do we spend millions on sending guys to the states on Crimson Eagle to learn CCA?
I can think of plenty of other things, that we would use, that would be cheaper and that are more relevant.
Widow 69 - if you've been on Crimson Eagle then you know it's not our exercise. Its one of the AAC's PDT serials. We just jump on because the airframes are there and are live firing - hence we are saving money by combining two PDT activities in one exercise!!
It's not the AH we want to work with though. I would argue that although it is cheaper to piggy back onto the AAC ex it's not necessarily the best value for money. This is in terms of the number of controls guys are getting on the ex. Going half way accross the world for the chance of a couple of controls isn't the best use of money or the time of the new FAC's who need controls and to drop live. Turning up to visit some Yank Sqns in the hope of being able to work with them is all well and good IF their serials include CAS is not then you have sh1t out. Also having to devote time to simulate being CCA controller is also not a good use of the FAC's time.
What CE needs is someone from the FAC community involved at recce/planning stage.
 
#15
tally_target said:
Ha not a chance that may encroach on the ''Gunner empire'' building. SupFACs will be in SMIG hats next. In fact 4 BDE PDT .....
So no more SupFACs then.
Whats it gonna be then? SMIJ(Jedi)?
 
#16
I know a few SMIGS that happen to be SupFAC's well one. He is a good lad. As long as FAC's are run by JALO I think we will be fine Forniup. The RA are beginning to get onside and the old cold war type BC is slowly getting moved on.
 
#17
tally_target said:
I know a few SMIGS that happen to be SupFAC's well one. He is a good lad. As long as FAC's are run by JALO I think we will be fine Forniup. The RA are beginning to get onside and the old cold war type BC is slowly getting moved on.
Nice eyebrows too
 
#18
The Cold War ended 20 years ago. Impressed that there are BC's who were around at the time.

During the Cold War each fd bty was supposed to have one of its 2 FOs trained as a secondary FAC. FAC is not exactly a novel concept. Reality wise the Bundewehr got it right, they canned the whole notion of CAS because being realists they knew there wouldn't be any - all the air effort would be on BAI and counter-air.
 
#19
I know a few of them. Larkers has got a good grip on it all, the JFW are really onside. I my opinion the probs are caused by the Royal Regiment running all joint fires and wanting CAS to do things the Larkhill way. As a Harrier sqn boss told me on a visit. CAS has been kicking around for 60 odd years, the RAF has developed its SOP's /TTP's over these 60 years, they are constantly changing and being updated.Its good news that we are getting career streamed as a FAC soon as well, the course is pretty nails and as soon as you get pretty good at it we get moved on. Now what about this FAC badge for our uniform?
 
#20
Petardier said:
The Cold War ended 20 years ago. Impressed that there are BC's who were around at the time.

During the Cold War each fd bty was supposed to have one of its 2 FOs trained as a secondary FAC. FAC is not exactly a novel concept. Reality wise the Bundewehr got it right, they canned the whole notion of CAS because being realists they knew there wouldn't be any - all the air effort would be on BAI and counter-air.
Beg to differ. The Germans' most recent employment of air fires resulted serious civilian casualties. The Germans are way behind in CAS/FAC development and still don't have their own school (they share one with the French in France).

That having been said, the German approach in the Cold War was understandable; CAS was and remains a relatively inefficient employment of air power, especially in large-scale state-on-state warfare.
 

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