Catalan Independence? Democracy dies in Spain.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Dwarf, Jan 12, 2014.

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  1. Added to the above the editor of the satirical magazine Jueves a sort of lower market Private Eye, has to appear in court.
    They printed a joke about stocks of cocaine being exhausted with the police presence in Catalunya.
    The police complained, as is their right, but he has to declare on criminal not civil counts.
    It's a constant niggle.
  2. Today the Catalan Speaker of Parliament and five other members of the procedures in Parliament had to declare before the Supreme Court in Madrid.
    She was given a bail of 150,000€ and one hour to pay, as she couldn't comply she was sent to prison tonight.
    The others were given bail of 25,000€ and seven days to pay, except one who voted No to UDI and he was set free.
    It's difficult to not interpret these decisions as being politically motivated, or at the very least influenced.
    Mazas the prosecutor is a mate of the Justice Minister and that doesn't help either.

    The other prisoners still in jail were refused bail due to the danger of flight, which seems really thin.

    Also when they were sent to prison 70 kms away, they were handcuffed, driven deliberately fast with no belts, flashing lights, thrown about a fair amount and a couple including Junqueras were stripped searched.
    This is seen as a deliberate humiliation, not just to the Indep movement but to all Catalans, and also as a deliberate punishment to those that dared to defy them, as well as being a warning and threat to those who may continue the process.

    An ex-president of Catalan Parliament commented on this saying that is is simply disgraceful. During a number of years a sector of Catalan society peacefully demonstrated their desire for change, their disquiet with the form of fitting into Spain, that were unhappy with the present situation.
    Then the arrogance of silence of Madrid that ignores the voices of a part of their population. They have made by their actions a lot of pople not feel Spanish, but they don't care while they have the power/force

    Watching Carmen Forcadell entering prison with flashing lights and escort. The TV Comment is that this is what Madrid wants, the vision of the delinquent spending a night in prison because that will resound through Spain.
    It creates indignation here, that's a big difference.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  3. Interesting to hear the Interior Minister talk about yesterday's strike.
    He said that the Mossos and GC worked seamlessly and without a single person hurt, unlike the previous demonstrations where there were some police remonstrances.
    The implications are obvious.

    It doesn't take into account the fact that the strike was not violent at all whereas the previous demonstrations were pro-Spain and included an element of aggressive behaviour.

    As someone said "They actually believe that we swallow that?".
  4. Interview with Noemi Klein (Canadian) last night.
    She observed that if the Canadians had done the same as Rajoy over Quebec then Canada would now not include Quebec.

    But I was interested to hear that she talked about the tactics of shock which Madrid seems to be applying in this case. The question she raised was that how does this benefit Madrid and what are they hiding with all this?

    She didn't answer the question, but I could suggest that the Gurtel case in which the Judge has said that there are indications that Rajoy as a minister received payments under the counter from the PP's 'other' accounts.In many other countries this would cause the government to fall.
    Possibly the fact that despite the upturn in the economy the benefits so far haven't reached down but have been directed into the hands of the few and not the many. In fact the average wage has dropped below that which it was before the financial crisis.
    The unemployment rate is at 17% nearly double that of the EU average.
    The PP has not been an economic success for Spain.
    Possible answers.

    ed for a word.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  5. That bit tells all
  6. Actually it's a wee bit worse. The newspaper before the trial said that they had been told that if they agreed to accept 155 and distance themselves from the Independence movement then they would have bail.
    Forcadell did so and was still jailed. As she was previously one of the big pieces in the ANC and their public voice, and then the Speaker of the Parliament then the film of her being taken to prison in flashing lights is a very clear message.

    It is interesting that he same tactic was used with Batasuna a sort of pro-Basque-independence-ETA-inclining party and their spokesman.
    The point was made last night that the comparison is deliberate.
    That is plausible considering that among the names Catalans have been called terrorists has been one of them. Names used by PP politicians.

    Ed for last paragraph.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  7. I am sure everybody knows that things are getting a trifle hot here. Right now there is a massive, and I mean massive, demonstration in the centre of Barcelona. Spanish national TV are ignoring it. It is Orwellian. They imprisoned, and by 'they' I mean the Madrid government, the equivalent of the Speaker of the House the other day. Please take notice. So far no-one dead, but I can feel that if there is even one fatality this will erupt. I am not suggesting any course of action or asking anyone to take sides. Decide for yourself and if you feel strongly enough, please do something, however small, to avert a European crisis. Thanks.
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  8. Yes, we know. In fact, we've known for some time

    Catalan Thread

    In fact, you've posted on there quite a few times.

    Also, it's not being ignored by Spanish TV. I'm watching the whole thing live on La Sexta at the moment. Pretty sure it's on other channels as well.
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  9. Nothing on the BBC about today's events, but they do have this:

    A lawyer whose firm represents two imprisoned former Catalan ministers says their situation was made worse by the self-imposed exile of deposed Catalan President Carles Puigdemont.

    Pau Molins told the BBC he believes Mr Puigdemont, who fled to Belgium, should have stayed in Spain to fight his case.

    He says it meant the justice system was able to justify jailing the ministers.
  10. Massive demo and march in Barcelona today in support of the imprisoned members of the Catalan parliament.

    Still going on well into the evening

    Big concert and festival type atmosphere by looking at it on the Spanish La Sexta channel.
    Crowd estimated at 750,000 throughout the day.
    No trouble reported in the main press or on the TV.
    Looks like Madrid has succeeded in getting one section of the Spanish people united, anyway.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  11. Nip over to the other Catalan thread. I've put some pictures on there.
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  12. At the point that I posted that, there was nothing but imported septic eyecandy, no news......which seemed a little unusual when one's country is in danger of being fragmented.
  13. Will do sir.
  14. Ta. Just what is going to my ears at the moment, I have people on Catalan tv, live, hundreds of thousands singing and chanting in unison....
  15. Thanks excellent pictures, but my point was that no matter how many people there are it hasn't made the BBC news in the UK and to me that's significant