Catalan Independence? Democracy dies in Spain.

Well well, lots of movements in the political scene, but which in terms of Catalunya may well mean no change.

Three things happened almost simultaneously, the first was that the budget was approved with the support of the PNV -Basques- who said that they would not do it while 155 was in place. They claimed that it was because the lifting of the same is imminent and claimed insider knowledge. That may well be but no-one else sees that as far as I can see.

The second is that an ex-minister of the PP Government of Aznar was arrested for money-laundering, money he had accumulated by setting up a web of corruption in Valencia where he started off. It was well-known that he was corrupt but it seems untouchable until now. Of a photo of Aznar and ministers 12 out of 14 have been implicated or convicted of corrupt activity. Aznar himself was fined for a trick to reduce his taxes and was caught out. This from a man who banged on about sacrifices that the ordinary bloke had to make. Also not forgetting that Rajoy has not disproved that he accepted under the counter extra payments.

Also the Gurtel Corruption case came up for sentencing with most of the accused receiving heavy sentences and the judges declaring that the PP had a Civil Responsibility in all this, saying in effect that they were also guilty by participation. Not only that but they said that when Rajoy gave testimony what he said was simply not plausible, in other words a load of porkies.

This hit the PP very hard and they launched against the Judges but said that this all belonged to the past and that they were not responsible for a few bad apples, and that all parties have their share,- so that makes it all right then.

Unfortunately for them it won't wash any more because a couple of years ago they talked about one or two bad apples, now they are talking about a dozen, so it's incrementing. Plus that it is one thing after the other and there are cases still to be resolved. Even the strongest supporter can see that it's endemic, and things like Cifuentes and her degree are not past events.



Interestingly the same day as Gurtel the National Police effected a series of raids on the Catalan Diputation in an attempt to find illegal monies channelled into the Referendum.

Whether or not they manage to find them, though it looks a bit dodgy, the thing was that it is the third time that when corruption cases have been sentenced that the Police receive orders for a big operation against Catalan institutions which they claim are pro-independence.

But for the first time it was knocked off the front pages by the Gurtel case, and for thefirst time it hasn't worked in covering up the naughty doings of the PP.

Finally things are catching up with them.



Then PSOE under Pedro Sanchez caught everybody by surprise by tabling a parlaimentary motion of censure against the Rajoy Government. Theoretically this could produce the downfall of the government if it succeeds.

That the PP see it as dangerous is shown by the vehemence with which they have attacked the motion. A year ago Podemos tabled the same thing and the PP hardly reacted seeing as it was unlikely to succeed, and so it was. This time they have had a real go, howling to the moon that Sanchez will have to make agreements with the independentistes and will put Spain in the hands of those who want to break up Spain. That it is going to hurt the stock exchange, that confidence in the country will drop, and so on, as if it is the fault of PSOE and nothing to do with their wrongdoings.
Cospodal has said that "everyone knows" that sooner or later he will have to pay a price with the separatists and if he leaves Spain as a hostage to them then he will be the enemy of Spain.
Strong words which indicate that win or lose the PP can only be hard on the independence movement.

But the situation needs analysis. PP are on the ropes, their past sins are coming out and they can't talk their way round them easily, though I am not betting that Rajoy won't get away with it at least temporarily. Right now all they can do is rant and rave, and set up Sanchez as unpatriotic whilst they are the defenders of Spain.

Podemos has said that they will support the motion with no conditions attached. So PSOE either needs Cs to add their votes or failing that a combination of all the small parties.



Cs have been totally wrong-footed by this, they who have tried to be 'more catholic than the Pope', as they say here, over the unity of Spain now have a problem. If they support the government they support the corruption they have been denouncing, and this will go ill with their new voters. But if they support the PSOE they risk being seen as taking a step left and supporting those their voters can't stand or disagree with. This at a point when they were seeing that the PP could implode and they could take the undisputed pole position as the party of the Right. Sanchez' initiative has cut the ground from under them and they have lost the initiative as he is now the man who is standing up for España.

They have reacted so far by saying that they will have nothing to do with any vote that the independence parties support and that they are demanding new elections to be called right now.



So what of the minor parties? Initially most were all in favour, however the Basque PNV is now in a quandry and said that if Sanchez is serious they will listen, if not they aren't interested because Cs might get in and they can't stand them. This I think is the key, how far does Sanchez really want this to proceed?

He is getting round it by saying that he will not negotiate with any party, they support it or they don't, and he will not agree to any conditions. Here I now question his objectives. He has indictated that he doesn't intend to bring down the government immediately. He could theoretically get a coalition of the Left and govern that way, but he might have to take ERC on board, or the Basques who want a new Statute. After his recent criticism of independence and support for 155 this doesn't look likely.

PdeCat are expressing reservation in their support of the motion because as they see it, while it would punish Rajoy the situation would be no change.

We have a possibility of a change in political scenery but I think the mistake of appointing Torra is conditioning it. If he hadn't written his 'journalistic' stuff then he might have been received with fewer problems, but he did and there has been a hell of a lot of criticism especially from Sanchez. The Berlin policy a la Puigdemont to continue confrontation has been wrong-footed by all this and looks to me to be an even bigger mistake than I initially thought as it is closing a door that could have been one that calmed the situation greatly.

After a bit of thought I reckon that Sanchez didn't expect to get support from Cs and he doesn't really expect support from all the minor parties. This allows him to have a debate which will drag the PP through the mud and leave them as a lame duck in power. But it will also leave them in his debt to a degree as he will not move for new elections yet. The vote will be close but if the nationalists, Basque and-or Catalan, don't support them he can blame its failure on their selfishness. This way he recovers ground in voters eyes as a man who is for Spain and denouncing coruption. He undermines Cs and PP, takes the initiative on the Left from Podemos and can blame the keeping of PP in power on Cs and the nationalists. Not a bad bit of politics.

Also the powers behind the PSOE, especially those in the power base of the South wouldn't support an initiative that encompasses either Basques or Catalans. There has already been PP pressure on them to reign in Sanchez, and he knows this, so he will go only so far, and no further. The powers want the stability of Spain guaranteed and their own position consolidated, which means they are scared of risk. So Sanchez has to be very astute in what he does here.

But in Catalan terms it means that while there might be a change in Madrid nothing will really change here. With another President in the Generalitat dialogue might have been a bit more possible. Now with this happening no governing party, or party that aspires to government can afford to even appear to be considering concessions.

I initially thought that we might get a changed playing field, because we need dialogue and not the spurious one offered by Rajoy, now I am not confident at all.
Ed for a minor omission.
 
Last edited:
The other day Llarenas refused to let Forn out of prison.
He has declared that he has now given up politics and will not stand again.

The reason given is that he and Junqueras co-wrote a letter in defence of CDRs.
The judge says this is evidence that he has not given up his ways, and there is a danger of flight and re-incidence.

Once again the Judge has him as guilty before the trial. Again what happened to freedom of expression?

The Rapper Valtonyc who has sentenced to prison for his words about the King has disappeared abroad. That he has had to is a sad commentary on the lack of the said freedom of speech, even if it was a totally crap song.
 
More movement, The motion of censure against Rajoy is going forward but with no certainty of it succeeding. The PSOE behind the scenes big boys have told Sanchez no deals with the independentistes. He has said that it's a yes or no vote, no conditions but that post-Rajoy we can talk.
Though after his adherence to 155 and recent anti-Catalan chat I don't see realistically about what unless he makes a fairly big turn.
Both PDeCat and PNV are reserving their options for the moment, and they are vital votes.
Meanwhile PP has really gone overboard about Sanchez needing the votes of those who would break Spain, and that all this is harming Spain on the stock market and is totally disloyal and similar stuff, as if they had no fault in all of this.
But it shows they are running scared. They also stated that the Gurtel judgement was essentially wrong and that they had no part in it and that the Judge was very wrong as there were no parallel accounts. -Believe us, honest.

Meanwhile Torra has taken the sensible step and replaced the four names who are either in exile or jail with four others.
Rajoy has said that this is reasonable and that he will allow publication of the DOGC and consequently 155 will be lifted. Mr Nice Guy when he needs PDeCat to hold off on the Censure vote.
Torra is presenting a legal complaint against the Government on the grounds that it is illegal to not publish the DOGC.
So he has made his symbolic choice and now opted for a pragmatic stance. Now he can govern and Puigdemont can wail in Europe, as it should be, at last.
Meanwhile Comin in Belgium has undelegated his vote which leaves the Independentistes without a clear majority in Parliament.
Personally I would stop paying the bugger.

More when it happens.
 
Well with the motion of censure to be debated tomorrow and PDeCat has agreed to support it we come down to the PNV and will they do do as well.

Meanwhile PP has had a go at everybody, they are not to blame, the danger is elections and dragging Spain's name through all this.
If they had any decency they would have called elections or had resignations, yet Rajoy says he will see out his mandate from the Spanish people.
Mandate? He got 33% of the vote, hardly a mandate.
But he is a survivor, he led his party to two successive election defeats and only got in over the financial crisis and because the PSOE imploded. He has had various corruption scares before this last one including his name on a list as accepting illegal cash payments. No other Head of State of party chief in Europe would have survived half of that.

Anyway here is an article that says it better than me.

Antoni Puigverd.
I read that Rajoy wants to turn Sanchez's motion into a platform for a relaunch. Maybe he'll get it: who resists, wins, in Spain, as everyone knows.
Although personal win then becomes a catastrophic inheritance. Louis XV of France (or perhaps his mistress, Madame de Pompadour) summed up in a celebrated maxim, the kind of indifference (impassivity) that Rajoy gives out: "Après moi, le déluge", after me, the flood. The sentence of the Gürtel could only be read with shame and embarrassment. If in our political culture interests were not more important than decorum, President Rajoy would have resigned.

The exact opposite happens: before the judicial evidence of the corruption of the PP, the spokespersons of the party bully. Not only they do not offer any resignations, but they have the audacity to comment on the sentence attacking their adversaries. De Cospedal, who during the procéss has been scolding the independence movement for its judicial disobedience, now relativizes the opinion of the judges and threatens the opposition deputies. For its part, the party coordinator, Martinez-Maillo, says that Sanchez will be remembered as "the Judas of politics" for accepting the votes "of those who want to break Spain."

For years, politics has been the art of poisoning the environment. Our governments and the highest institutions are in the hands of people who, in spite of their patriotic proclamations, do not know how to express, even in the most serious moments, a minimum respect for those who do not think like them. They do not recognize any error. They devote all their energy to destroying. The PSOE (just remember the phrases that these days say the old glories like Guerra or Ibarra) is not free from the evils that have characterized the PP. Nor Citizens, who was born with a strictly negative purpose: to oppose Catalanism. It does not matter if it is a constitutional or rupturist Catalanism: the complacent disgust that Cs spokesmen project today is identical to that expressed by their intellectual founders before founding the party, when the independence movement was a minority. Something similar can be said of the Catalan separatists, who, after expelling from the temple all those who did not commune with the procéss, have not yet understood that Torra's identity resentment (idealizer of the past, allergic to the present, unable to understand the Catalan plurality of today) is the best gift they could offer their adversaries; and the worst card they could send to Europe.
With the motion of censure from Sanchez to Rajoy, words covered in manure, will fall on each other. They will leave a bleak panorama. We only have to wait for a flood a la Italian: the blockade of politics. It will not take long. When we are under the deluge, perhaps some of those who now applaud the alarmism, cultivate the territorial hatred and foment rabid partisanship, they will realize the evil that they will have caused us all through those practices which fiercely exclude democracy. We will not be in time to repair it.
 
Details.

ANC accuse Torra of giving in to pressure over his new appointments.
CUP agree and will only support things they see in line with either the restoration of the Republic or for social works.

Millo the catalan representative of the government warns that using 155 is now easy.

155 will be lifted when the Catalan government takes up their posts, probably saturday. Assuming that we can if Rajoy has not been thrown out.


Alfonso Guerra, ex-PSOE minister openly called Torra a nazi. I have mentioned that this is becoming common currency and when responsible people do this it is extremely worrying for democracy as I see it.
Torra may be many things, the inependentistes also, but nazis?
Yet the created image gets deeper every day.
 
Watching the news I see that Spain is offering a 12,000 euro prize to the foreign journalist who writes the article that puts Spain in the best light.
The correspondents are indignant and various foreign newspapers are running it.
As one said here that she is here not to write good or bad but to write the truth not propaganda and if Spain is offering this prize then Spain has a problem.
 
Bon dia a tots.
Today one Spanish newspaper (el Pais) has an article which states that the 'Nationalist parties of Cataluna and Vasc country decide the destiny of Spanish politics'
The way I interpret it is, there is a motion of censure against Rajoy and if it passes he will have to resign, the new president of PSOE would be Sanchez thus the Vascs and Catalan (ERC y el PDeCAT) can in effect be saviours of Mariano Rajoy which would be somewhat unpalatable their supporters. (its only a matter of a few votes).
I presume that then a new national election would be triggered if Rajoy was ousted.
The Vasc independents do not want a national election because their vote is being eroded by Podemos so they may vote to keep Rajoy in order maintain their present status in the Vasc country, politics and democracy at its best.

Then again I may have interpreted everything incorrectly, Mr Dwarf will be able to keep us on the clarify things.

El PNV se acerca al sí a Sánchez presionado por el apoyo catalán
 
@Civiliam

The vote will be close and both PDeCat and PNV have said they will reserve their votes till they hear what PSOE have in mind.
So Sanchez has said that he will retain the fiscal pact with the Basques, (despite it giving the Basques a huge difference over the other autonomies),
and will offer to dialogue with the Catalans.

Problems, the Basques are really anti Cs and don't want them to have elections soon. There is little Cs presence in the Basque Country so Cs don't have to worry about keeping them onside as they aren't going to lose votes there. After Sanchez's recent declarations the Catalans are fairly leery of his motives and policies.

If either PDeCat or PNV vote against the vote will founder, though Podemos has said they will immediately table their own. This may be attractive to PDeCat and PNV as they can make deals with Podemos easier than with PSOE at the moment.
But helping Mariano would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow.

However it's not a case of calling elections if the motion succeeds, it's more a case of adjusting power. Rajoy would effectively be ousted as PM and Sanchez voted in. So PP out of power and in opposition, and PSOE with a coalition of left-wing parties to govern as a minority party under more or less the same circumstances as PP have done so far.

Rajoy has stated he will not resign under any circumstances despite it being the decent thing. The Spanish equivalent of the Mess Webley doesn't exist here.
The debate at the moment, just glancing at the papers, is being waged very nastily indeed and Rajoy is the proverbial wounded wildcat.

We'll see how it goes.
 
Well, well, looks like he's going to go as PNV support the motion.

It's not over yet but unless he does some black magic it will be tomorrow.
PP are screaming that Sanchez is pacting with the independentistes, that he has sold out Spain, a sign that they are really badly hurt.

Maybe tomorrow he will pull something out of the hat, but this is a first for Spain, binning a PM without elections. And to rub salt right in a week ago he had his budget approved and it looked like he would last out the term.

Interesting times.
 
Rajoy will probably be gone on Friday.
Back to more elections. It must be remembered that Rajoy is only an "interim" PM and was asked to form a minority government when the socialists couldn't agree on a coalition and Rajoy was propped up by the Cs (among others).
With Podemos now so low in the polls, it would be difficult for the socialists to have enough seats and The PP have been steadily losing ground to the Cs throughout this year who definitely won't prop him up again.
Obviously the Gurtel case has brought this all to a head and the rather stiff sentences handed out plus the criticism of the PP makes Rajoy one of the walking dead.
(Something I think you'll find I forecast quite some time ago, well, I actually said he knew he was on borrowed time but close enough).
It's getting to be like Italy round here.
 
Well he didn't show up in parliament for the afternoon session but holed up in a restaurant for eight hours.

Yet there is a possible scenario where he technically resigns but his party continues while he calls the shots from behind the scenes.
It would be a lame duck government.

But the PP can't afford elections now and need time to recover ground.
Sanchez would also be better off without elections especially as the Right are classing him as the biggest act since Judas.
The only ones who want elections are Cs.

See where it goes friday.
 
Just watched the summing up this morning, Rajoy was not present.
Sanchez quite reasonable and held out a hand to the PP. He also said that he wanted to keep Catalunya in Spain and to do so he would talk to them as nobody had done so so far. But that he would respect the Constitution.

Hernando of the PP gave a chat that sounded rather unintelligent or perhaps better adolescent. He accused Sanchez of accepting the votes of Bildu -which the PP had also done- and wasn't he ashamed?
He also extolled Rajoy as being an upright hard-working man who had been a great President and left Spain better than it was.
Apart from being untrue, or at least hugely debatable, as to leaving Spain better off, it sounded to me rather like the newsflash of the death of Franco.
.
Pretty much of a "we haven't done anything and you are all nasty bullies" type of thing, which I found distasteful, but it was warmly applauded by the PP.

Then Rajoy came in for the last five minutes, stood up and gave a very dignified brief speech in which he acknowledged his defeat, congratulated Sanchez and wished him luck for the good of Spain. He thanked his party, said how proud he was to have been President of Spain and sat down.
Apart from the fact that Hernando had already done the shouting and pouting, I found that dignified and worthy of a final speech.
 
Well vote done and dusted. Rajoy has lost. 180-169.
Sanchez president.





As an aside I noticed that a couple of MPs were not present, including Government, and they delegated their vote via electronic means.
That was one of the complaints about those in Belgium.
 
How the mighty have fallen!

'The leader of the Spanish Socialist party Pedro Sanchez has become prime minister after centre-right leader Mariano Rajoy was voted out of office in a closely fought no-confidence motion triggered by a long-running corruption trial.

'The motion, called by Sanchez, won 180 votes for, with 169 against and one abstention.

'Sanchez is expected to take office by Monday and his cabinet appointed next week.'

Spanish opposition leader ousts Rajoy
 
The EU will be very, very worried, now Spain will have a more socialist government with a leader, (Pedro Sanchez) who has promised the electorate that austerity under him would end. At the same time he has jumped into bed (for the censure) with the Vasc and Catalan separatists no doubt he has promised a few sweeteners.
The Catalans under the previous government already had a large chunk of autonomy, but they did resent having to subsidise the poorer parts of Spain, above everything they want to be an independent nation.
Sooo, what can Sanchez give them that they didn't have? lets face it a more socialist government is expensive to run and the Spain can ill afford to loose the moneys from Cataluna.
On top of that Sanchez has declared on numerous occasions his belief that an independent Cataluna is bad for Spanish and Catalan people.
With all of the above its likely he is going to have a weak government and the minor parties will be withdrawing their support making it impossible to pass legislation and to govern.
What ever happens it would seem that Spain and Cataluna are heading for a few years of uncertainty, lots of political negotiations, with resulting economic instability. Also the likelihood of another general election or two.
 
As a son of the Tyne I just can't resist this.

Sanchez in. Rajoy out.

In fact he's a Rahoyoot. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:







Sound of short Geordie rolling home chuckling.
 
The EU will be very, very worried, now Spain will have a more socialist government with a leader, (Pedro Sanchez) who has promised the electorate that austerity under him would end. At the same time he has jumped into bed (for the censure) with the Vasc and Catalan separatists no doubt he has promised a few sweeteners.
The Catalans under the previous government already had a large chunk of autonomy, but they did resent having to subsidise the poorer parts of Spain, above everything they want to be an independent nation.
Sooo, what can Sanchez give them that they didn't have? lets face it a more socialist government is expensive to run and the Spain can ill afford to loose the moneys from Cataluna.
On top of that Sanchez has declared on numerous occasions his belief that an independent Cataluna is bad for Spanish and Catalan people.
With all of the above its likely he is going to have a weak government and the minor parties will be withdrawing their support making it impossible to pass legislation and to govern.
What ever happens it would seem that Spain and Cataluna are heading for a few years of uncertainty, lots of political negotiations, with resulting economic instability. Also the likelihood of another general election or two.
In fact the EU's initial reaction was positive. Sanchez stated that he would maintain the budget as it is which gave occasioned a sigh of relief all round. Plus the markets have recovered.
I think the EU may have mixed feelings, the first is that Rajoy was a good line-tower and tried to be a faithful friend to Dame Angela in order to raise Spain's profile and join the big boys, much as Aznar leapt onto Bush and Blair's coat-tails. Yet over Catalunya he ignored the pleas for dialogue and thus helped exacerbate the situation, so a new face that might actually calm the situation is to be welcomed. That said he will have a short mandate, and possibly not a very effective one so they will be worried about the governability of the country.
At least he speaks some English (I think) which will be a first for a Spanish PM.

Sanchez has a lot of pots on the boil that the PP left bubbling and he has a minority government. The parties that supported him were all clear that it was for that issue alone. So everytime he tries to act he has to find sufficient support amongst the rest of the parties.
Right now it stands thusly:
134 PP / 84 PSOE / 67 UP-ECP-EM / 32 Cs / ERC 5 / EAJ-PNV 19 Mixt

Assuming that PP and Cs will oppose him on everything he needs to find a total of 167 votes just to beat them alone and some small parties are not very pro-Sanchez. So simple maths means if he gets Podemos onside for a measure he still needs at least 16 votes to get it through provided the others abstain. Uphill task.
Plus his movements will be limited by both the party barons who are very conservative, Susana Diaz in Andalusia who also is a hard-liner, and the fact that the Senate is PP dominated which may well thwart him at every turn.

266 members 149 Grupo Popular / 62 Grupo Socialista / 20 Grupo Unidos Podemos-En Comú Podem-En Marea / 12 Grupo de Esquerra Republicana / 6 Grupo Vasco en el Senado (EAJ-PNV) / 6 Grupo Nacionalista (PDeCAT-CC) / 22 Grupo Mixto

Reading the headlines of the Madrid papers the ABC says "Government without a rudder", La Razon "First veto for Sanchez" El Mundo that Sanchez will form a government from the PSOE not with Podemos.

ABC also runs an article that says that Sanchez will swear his oath without a Bible or crucifix, which shows where a lot of heads are at.

Double uphill task if the press are against him unlike Rajoy who had them firmly in his camp.


As to Catalunya he has offered dialogue, but his freedom of movement is limited. If he makes concessions he is dead because he will be ganged up on and the Madrid press will scream Judas to the world.
Listening to his speech I think he is trying to promote the idea of consensus government, a concept very foreign to a lot of Spanish minds and tradition. I also think he will go for offering the Catalans incentives, perhaps such as the Mediterranean corridor, which would also benefit Spain as a whole, especially Valencia and Murcia.
I also think that at the back of his mind may be the idea of eventually offering the Basques and Catalans some form of national identity which would be hard to swing in the rest of the State but that I think will have to be done at some point.

Problem as you say is what can he offer the Catalans? Yes there is a level of autonomy that raises the question why ask for more? I repeat here that money was a symptom not a cause, national identity and making decisions for ourselves, Catalans deciding for Catalans was the issue.
He can't offer that but national identity would be a help. But Rajoy has managed to harden stances on both sides and for many Catalans staying in Spain is not what they want after all that has happened. An option that might have solved things may now not be enough.
Easy it won't be, but at least the first signs are that Sanchez and Torra will talk positively. After the last years of brick walls (on both sides) then that's a major step.
 
At last Catalunya has a new government, and 155 is automatically lifted.

However we wait to see if the Treasury maintains a control over finances, which is a form of covert 155.

The new government has stated that they will be faithful to the mandate of 1 Oct, a statement of intent.
That means they will work towards the Republic but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will go illegal or look for confrontation. But it is a clearly independentiste government.
They have also stated that they will work towards the freedom of those in prison and the return of the exiles, which may well be an ephemeral hope.

Neither Cs nor PP were present at the swearing-in ceremony.

This soap opera still has a long way to go.
 
I notice that Rajoy will not step down from politics but will remain as the leader of the opposition.

The first president in the history of democracy in Spain to be censured and forced out and he won't step down to let his party get an infusion of new blood? The president who has caused Cs to overtake them in the polls, and who constantly received the worst evaluation of all leaders in all those polls, and he refuses to step down. Incredible.
 
I notice that Rajoy will not step down from politics but will remain as the leader of the opposition.

The first president in the history of democracy in Spain to be censured and forced out and he won't step down to let his party get an infusion of new blood? The president who has caused Cs to overtake them in the polls, and who constantly received the worst evaluation of all leaders in all those polls, and he refuses to step down. Incredible.
Now, I know you don't like him but Rajoy did take over at a very inauspicious time for Spain. The crisis caused by the banks hit Spain incredibly hard and the country took a bit of a tumble especially with the housing crash.
I moved here the same year Rajoy took over and have seen Spain come along in leaps and bounds since then. The banks are only just getting over the crisis but productivity and growth has been quite spectacular over the last 3 or 4 years in particular. Services, banks, industry and the general way of life has done nothing but improve in the time I've been here.

OK, that bit over.
Sanchez has said he will form his short-term government (he has hinted at a General Election before the municipal elections in May next year) but won't be relying on or appointing anyone from Podemos.

I think we have to realise that although PSOE is socialist it is with a small s and nothing like the Socialism we are seeing from Corbyn or any of the other socialist European countries with the possible exception of Sweden.
This is more like the Blair type socialism but, hopefully, without the spend, spend, spend mindset.

One of the reasons PSOE and the other socialists couldn't form a coalition with Podemos against Rajoy was that they couldn't countenance the stupid public spending promises by Podemos (seem to recall they were asking 60 billion euro to be ploughed in to public services-a figure the other socialist parties couldn't even begin to consider).

Sanchez is also rather pro EU (he was an MEP and an advisor to the European Commission in the past) unlike Podemos which is more akin to Communism than Socialism. And, like all good real Socialists, their leader criticised those who live in big villas and then went out and bought himself one.
Even a party with the obviously Socialist name of the Progressive and Democratic Union is really a centre party.

So although we have a socialist government for the time being, it will be interesting to see how Ciudadanos fares.
 

Latest Threads

Top