Catalan Independence? Democracy dies in Spain.

Further to the above the problem is with the anti-terrorist law which was re-written after the Charlie Hebdo incident in an agreement between PP and PSOE.

It removed the need to belong to an armed group as a pre-requisite for being defined as terrorist thinking about the islamic lone wolf. Because the re-writing was inspired by a need to combat islamic terrorism.
So the argument here is that the spirit of the law should be attended to and not simply the letter. The law has now been left so vague that virtually anybody could be classified as a terrorist if you look at it from a certain angle.
It might seem ridiculous but if Exbleep and I actually managed a beer together and he became loud and vocal in his defence of the Union so that people could hear, then I got loud and vocal in my defence of independence, then stood on a stool, reached up and gave him a ding round the lug, then that could actually be classified as a terrorist act. The law is at once both that vague and catch-all.

In the case of Altsasu the damage done to the GC were a few bruises and one broken ankle, had it really been the 'lynching' claimed by some then I suggest that they would have received more than a bit of a shoeing.

The spirit of the law is a defence against islamic terrorism, but the letter allows it to be abused, as it seems to be the case both in Basque Country and here.

Ed typo
 
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Right now there is a big demonstration congregating in Barcelona protesting against the position of the prisoners and the actions of the Judiciary.
It is important to note that this was called by a grouping that includes Trade Unions, Omnium, and a variety of institutions including parent associations. This is not simply an Independence march like we had on the Diadas. It includes people who are not supporters of independence but support democracy and are worried about the situation.

There have been 900 coaches arriving chartered from all over Catalunya and as usual there are flags, banners and a lot of folk standing around waiting for the start.
 
If a bar fight involved the taking of a life, permanent injury or loss of income a prison sentence might be justified. 50 years for a bar fight does not sound like modern Western justice. What's the usual term for murder? Do you get the sense that a blue touch paper will reach flash point?
Spain was oft regarded as sophisticated and advanced. Indeed engineering, architecture, aerospace and art are testimony to this. However, as an outsider who has never been there, I get the impression that stability is as per the stereotyped Latin temperament and that medieval attitudes are never far from the surface. In France they have relative stability but are never far from rebellion amongst factory workers and farmers, destroying factories and burning sheep. In Germany it is the migrants who rebel.
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I think you have a point there. Along with Exbleep I agree that Spain has made a lot of strides in many ways since Franco died, and in some ways it is a different country.
But I don't consider that they have made the same strides in democracy or political institutions, I think there is a way to go yet.
There seems to be a certain mindset that all democracy needs to be is vote every four years and that's that. It's not a universal view by any means, I wouldn't say that, but it is entrenched in certain places.
One of the places is in government, and historically Spain has been led by a small coterie with everyone else having to fall into line and backed up by the military and the Church. The mentality was 'I am right and you have to do what we say' with a huge difference in social scale and a 'us and them' attitude. Spain was ruled for the benefit of that coterie and not for the advancement of the country as a whole. As a history type I think this is important because it is embedded in a certain circle who form part of the ruling caste and the Right in particular.
It meant that when in power the PP especially acted through the forms of democracy but not the spirit. The two main parties simply changed places every few years and the ruling caste continued in the 'I'm right and do as I say'. Recently the picture is changing with Cs and Podemos changing the scene and needing pacts and agreements to be able to rule and absolute majorities much more difficult to obtain.
In fact if the PP do eventually implode and effectively disappear to the benefit of Cs a right wing government with a majority may be achievable but I don't see the same happening on the left. PSOE is rife with internal battles and fairly ineffective at the moment while Podemos seems to have reached its limits at themoment as everyone else regards it as radical.

Add to this a certain stereotype as you say and it tends to mean that there is a certain hot-bloodedness in the situation. Exbleep I think is lucky in that Valencia is a bit more laid back in its attitudes and more tolerant than can be found in other parts. This hot-bloodedness and a 'I am right attitude' can lead to a lack of understanding of other povs and a negation of the same. The historical tradition in Spanish politics of imposing your idea on the other side rather than parliamenting comes to the surface.

I stress that this is a tendency and not a totality, and that there are changes in attitudes in certain sectors visible. However even in the days of Felipe Gonzalez when Pascual Maragall the President approached him with proposals that fore-shadowed the Statute and also what is happening now,
and that would have defused this present situation the reply was that it was impossible. But more than that the government did nothing to change the situation until Zapatero, who then allowed the Statute to be emasculated

Democracy needs to be worked at constantly, and there are two forces pulling on it, the first of the multitude who want more and wider democracy, and the second is of vested interests who want to limit it to their benefit. What I see here in Spain is this battle very much in the forefront of politics this century.
Will there be a blue touchpaper lit? I don't know, I hope not. I think that the Catalans and Basques don't have the exact same mentality as in the rest of the Peninsula and there is a certain pragmatism, especially in the Basques. It is very clear that the use of violence as they have in France is counter-productive, which is why the charges of terrorism are seen as a repression by the apparatus of the State by many here, both indy and non.

Watching the march on TV as I type I can see there is a peaceful but indignant attitude, and also a determination.
Thanks to the lack of political initiatives and the abdication of politics to the Courts then what was a real defeat of the Independence movement, albeit via police actions, prisons and 155, has been to re-ignite the feelings of the movements at a grass-roots level. The movement started at the street level and was not a politically lead one. Then it placed its faith in the politicians who took up their cause. Now that those politicians have failed in the face of the reassertion of authority of the State that grass-roots movement is now resurfacing but searching for a leader and a way ahead.
Do we need political representation? Certainly at some point. But right now that is lacking and I wonder how much trust people will place in the next Catalan Government's hands, especially as they seem incapable of getting a closed-minded Central Government to at least talk.
Rajoy is a classic representative of the tradtional Spanish way of governing, not just over Catalunya because the constant frustration with him over the years is a refusal to real dialogue with opposition parties. With this attitude unchanged something is now likely to happen now that the Independence movement is finding a voice again.
We can't keep on just marching with the government refusing to talk to a disaffected grouping who represent a fair number of their citizens. But where this will go I don't know, though the need to keep this peaceful is a real feeling here.
 
The Demonstration for the Liberty of the prisoners is now dissolving after the two hours that were called for.
Totally peaceful and also almost a festive occasion in the Spring sun.

Guardia Urbana says 315,000 people.

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Today, Sanchez et al are in front of Llarena who will inform them of their being formally charged with rebellion.

Judge Carmen Larena has formally stated that she is going ahead with charges of sedition and belonging to a criminal organisation for Trapero.

The case of the lads from Altsasu is also staring today.

We await results.
 
Montoro the Minister of Economy has said that the 1 Oct was not paid using public money,and neither were Puigdemont's expenses.
He says he doesn't know where it came from but it wasn't from the public coffers.

(I do, private contributionds to fighting funds, people like Wor Lass have standing orders)

This will make the misuse of funds charge difficult to stand up.

However two comments:

We live in a State where by control of spending the State can prevent Independence and that is what they have done, and they have learned lessons for the future.
- Lessons of recentralisation and control? I ask myself.

But he also says that 'malversacion' can also involve say opening a public place to an illegal meeting.
-That might work.


Montoro is probably the most intelligent bloke in government today on all sides, and while I don't always go along with his policies I do respect his abilities.
 
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the comprehensive and considered reply. It is good to know that on balance the tendency is towards peaceful protest and resolutions. It was notable that Rajoy got away with what seemed like excessive force and violence, with no censure from the EU, who also seem to have a similar attitude to Ordegan so I can understand the tension of frustration with the status quo versus anticipation of hard suppression.
 
Thanks for the comprehensive and considered reply. It is good to know that on balance the tendency is towards peaceful protest and resolutions. It was notable that Rajoy got away with what seemed like excessive force and violence, with no censure from the EU, who also seem to have a similar attitude to Ordegan so I can understand the tension of frustration with the status quo versus anticipation of hard suppression.[/QUOTE]

You mean apart from the EU urging talks on separatism and condemning the violence used by the GC?
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The EU executive urged Spain to talk to Catalan separatists on Monday, condemning violence but also calling for unity, a day after Spanish police beat people trying to vote in an independence referendum in Catalonia.

Edging into a minefield it has tried hard to avoid, despite a danger for stability in Spain and the euro zone, the European Commission issued a cautiously balanced statement. It voiced trust in Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s ability to manage this “internal matter”, but also called for dialogue and reminded Madrid of a need to respect citizens’ basic rights.

“We call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue. Violence can never be an instrument in politics,” the Commission said in a statement read out by chief spokesman Margaritis Schinas, just before Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont asked for EU mediation.

And, no, I'm not justifying any of it but let's get the facts straight.
 
Unfortunately that dialogue is no closer than it has ever been. The PP can't because then they lose with Cs. Puigdemont seems more inclined in principle but he wants to continue for a bit longer in bringing Spanish Justice and actions into the European arena.

But we desperately need some form of dialogue otherwise it will just be Madrid imposing their will via force on the periphery as it has always done.

But reflecting on all this it seems to me that there has to be dialogue not just with Madrid and Barcelona but also with both cities and their own people.

Not all Catalans want independence or are entirely convinced, and that is perfectly normal, some areas are more independence minded than others, again perfectly normal. But within Catalunya we need to reconcile the two sides. Whatever solution is arrived at it just can't be acceptable to one part of society without making an attempt to take the other side into consideration. Otherwise the breech will still be open.
But also I think that Spanish society needs some form of dialogue with a debate that puts forward both views. Not all Spanish agree with the government's actions, and some are worried that Justice is being used incorrectly which is a dangerous precedent. Again, whatever happens here some people will be unhappy, if there is some form of negotiation the Hasdrubals will be affronted, if there is simply a repression the more liberal side will have a disquiet about the results on their own society.

There needs to be a reconciliation on all these levels, not just Madrid-Barcelona. However with entrenched opinions I see this getting less possible as each day.
 
You couldn't make it up part umpteen.

Today the Supreme Tribunal had a major go at German Justice saying that if it had happened there they would have reacted differently. (Ignoring the fact that the Germans actually dialogue these situations so they don't get near this type of situation.)
That the level of violence was not sufficient to force the Central Government to cave in to the demands of the insurgents.

"The Supreme Court highlights in a resolution on the matter that the 6,000 agents used to prevent the referendum were "ostensibly outnumbered" by the two million voters, and proof of this is that "the consultation ended up being carried out (granted without the minimum guarantees, ) and that the defendants continued with their secessionist road map and ended up declaring the independence of Catalonia ".

The Chamber adds that "if a greater number of police officers had intervened, it is very likely that everything would have ended in a massacre and then it would be very likely that the outcome of the European warrant would be very different".

I'm sorry but what? Firstly the violence was launched by the police. Secondly that if they had had enough boots there would have been a massacre!! So the police launch a massacre, blame the people on the street, and then we have rebellion?

Can anyone please explain that logic to me?

Partner's comment was "Are these people on drugs?"

I know that Madrid was hurt by the refusal of Germany to hand over Puigdemont but this is just manipulating facts to fit a scenario that they want.

(Yes everyone does but hey.)

So the potential violence that the people might have triggered would have been against themselves. Therefore we have rebellion.
That seems to be the logic of the courts. It seems to be a view of justice that isn't quite fitting with a fair system, rather, redefining judicial terms to fit a pre-ordained picture and outcome that the system wants.

Today Junqueras, Sanchez, Rull and others questioned the impartiality of Llarenas, and rightly so IMHO, but it won't get them anywhere.

All I see in Spanish papers is the word violence, the politicians mouth it constantly, the picture is of the Basque Country at it's Etarra worst. It's a constant, painting a picture that doesn't exist but with luck Europe will accept it and they will give up Puigdemont and allow Spain to stick the prisoners away for decades.

I see that with this picture Madrid will now ask for Puigdemont to be extradited for secession.

Today El Pais printed an article about the 404 cases of violence registered by the GC during the Process.
Reading it most are for minor things like daubing walls, the injuries received by the Police on 1 Oct (while omitting the thousand injuries that the Independentistes received from the Police) 193 roads cut, demonstrations outside hotels with GC/NP billets, and even the business belonging to Albert Rivera's dad getting stickers demanding for freedom for the prisoners on his walls.

I think it's maybe extending the terminology of violence a bit far, especially when presenting the scene as a Dodge City to the outside.

Good God. They couldn't make more independentistes if they tried. Instead of accepting a reverse they are just stacking wood on the fire, and presenting the Catalans as a violent movement to win the propaganda battle in both Europe and Spain can only entrench things here and make a real and lasting solution that much more difficult. But the suspicion is that they aren't interested in even trying to find one.
 
More things.

Montoro the Finance Minister stated publicly that not public money was spent on the referendum.
Judge Llarenas says that that does not agree wth his investigations and has asked the ministry to supply relevent date as soon as possible. The Ministry has agreed to do so.

That obviously raises questions as to the data Llarenas is using. Montoro took control of the Generalitat finances a time before the referendum with the obvious end to prevent public monies being used for that end. So maybe he should know.
I for one would love to know Llarenas sources which apparently are based on GC investigations.

One thing I do know is that a lot, if not all, of the money was spent via public subscriptions so how Llarena is getting to his conclusion I don't know.

I know that it's easy to accuse me of being Plastic Catalan, but I do think that Llarenas has an agenda and has a scenario set out that he wants to happen and is trying to make the world fit round that, rather than the actual facts.


More: The Central Government is studying controlling TV3 if there are new elections. -No comment apart from freedom of information.

The President of the Spanish Football Association said on TV today that he considers that the heckling of the Spanish National Anthem on Cup Final Day is a form of violence.
What happens is that the Catalans whistle during the National Anthem, in the prescence of the King. Possibly a form of expression.
We have had two Barça-Atletic de Bilbao (Basques) which have been deafening during the music and caused indignation in the rest of the State.
Yet qualify that as a form of violence is to fall into line with the propaganda that is being pumped out daily. Catalan and Independence apparently = violence whatever form it takes.

I shake my head at a lot of this, because it's going to take a hell of a lot of time to heal the wounds that politicians are causing. If indeed it will ever be possible.
 
Madrid, Apr 19 (EFE) .- reported that the judge of the "process" in the Supreme Court, Pablo Llarena, has been told by the Civil Guard that the Generalitat embezzled 1,915,067 euros from public funds in the organisation and running of the Catalan independence referendum of October 1, 2017.

I think I got that right . if so the chances of extradition just got worse for the exiles (assuming the court and civil guard can prove it of course)
 
Madrid, Apr 19 (EFE) .- reported that the judge of the "process" in the Supreme Court, Pablo Llarena, has been told by the Civil Guard that the Generalitat embezzled 1,915,067 euros from public funds in the organisation and running of the Catalan independence referendum of October 1, 2017.

I think I got that right . if so the chances of extradition just got worse for the exiles (assuming the court and civil guard can prove it of course)
Ref that. It would be interesting to see what they are claiming as used for the Referendum.
Montoro was quite clear on the score that the Generalitat didn't use public money.

Comment heard;
"Montoro is just covering his and his department's rear ends, but what if the GC say that the electricity used in the centres is an unauthorised cost? In that case he could then say 'well if you count that then OK then'"

Until the GC report is made public then we simply don't know what they attribute as a cost. It may well be that they are assumed payments, it may not.

Whatever the conclusions what is happening is getting quite serious in that we have a judge and a government department shaping up against each other. To paraphrase Fernando Onega (non Indep) then either there will be reduced confidence in the justice system, or in the Ministry of Economics, or both. Either way it is detrimental to the quality of democracy.

This situation is, I'm sure, unexpected for the Government who are seeing one of the results of using the tribunals as a substitute for politics. If they back Montoro they undermine the judge and the GC, if they back the judge or just stand back then Montoro will suffer. Interesting dilema.
Meanwhile the war of words between Cs and PP is escalating and getting quite heated which was only to be expected. The PP are closer to the ropes now than last week.
The Government has said that it is incumbent for the Justice system to prove embezzlement, and Rivera is threatening to ask for resignations.

Meanwhile ex-president Aznar from the FAES is asking that 155 be extended, which is stirring the pot.

It's interesting to see that there are a couple of boomerangs that the Government didn't expect which wouldn't have happened if they had chosen a political dialogue rather than an authoritarian 'No' stance.

I think also Europe will look at Spain a little differently whatever happens here, and perhaps Dame Angela will review her opinions a bit. It's not turning out to be as straightforward as they thought in Madrid.
 
Just noticed that the figures for GC injured on 1 Oct have been quietly lowered.
The figure of 431 on the day has ben reduced to 111.
 
The Ministry of the Interior published a tweet which gives their definition of terrorism so we all know.

The commission of any serious crime against life or physical integrity, liberty, moral integrity, sexual freedom and indemnity, heritage, natural resources or the environment, public health,catestrophic risk shall be considered a terrorist offense, fire, against the Crown, of physical attack, possession, traffic and deposit of weapons, ammunition or explosives, provided for in this Code, and the seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of collective transport or goods, when taken with any of the following purposes. "
"Subvert the constitutional order, or suppress or seriously destabilize the functioning of political institutions or the economic or social structures of the State", as well as "compel the public authorities to perform an act or refrain from doing so .
Seriously affect the public peace.
Seriously destabalise the functioning of an international organisation.
Provoke a state in terror in, or part of, the population.


Also when infractions against the following articles are committed with the above intentions: 197 bis 197 ter, 264 a 264 quater.

Well now we know, and that seems to be a pretty broad definition that could catch just about anything.

So why now? Well today Barça are playing the Cup Final against Seville, their fourth consecutive final, and in the last three supporters whistled during the national Anthem. The last two were both against Atletic de Bilbao a Basque team and it was pretty deafening. King Felipe is always present to give the cup as apart from liking football it is called the King's cup and the monarch usually has to be there.
The whistling does offend many Spanish, but this year the rhetoric has increased. Last year some politicians called for the match to be cancelled if whistling took place. This year suggestions also include police action. The president of the football league has called it verbal violence, - that word that is used now as a regular occurence when talking about Catalunya.
Zoido issued this statement in the tweet:

The tweet published by the Ministry directed by Juan Ignacio Zoido was published this Friday. It literally states that "the Criminal Code specifies what is considered a terrorist crime" and therefore they decide to share an image "in case someone needs to reflect on it during the weekend". For those who do not need it, Interior advises calm because "the Guardia Civil and the Police ensure the safety of everyone."

If that isn't a threat then it's an indication that measures will be taken. Freedom of expression down the tubes then.
For the record I have been ambiguous about the whistling, and when it affects Barça who could be fined or penalised then I'm not happy with it. But the King has been such an arrse over Catalunya that this time I'm not so sure.
But no matter how much you call for calm, some idiot will whistle because that's how he feels, and feelings are running high right now. But is that terrorism? Apparently so according to Zoido.
We will end up with wearing yellow will be terrorism because it is offensive to some people.
 
Well the final went off better than I expected, and Barça drubbed Seville 5-0 with a recital of football which I really enjoyed. Mind I felt sorry for the opposition supporters and had expected a closer match.

However the polemic came at th entrance to the stadium when the Barça supporters had to go through a police control where they confiscated yellow T-shirts, scarves and banners with messages of a political nature, Also whistles were not supposed to be taken in and all was thrown into skips brought in for the purpose.
According to Judges for Democracy this is aginst one's legal right to expression and should not have happened.

Estelades were allowed as that had been covered after a previous final.

The Barça supporters took it on the chin, but it's just another example of the stuff that is aimed at the Catalans as it appears from here. It seems that yellow is an offensive colour if worn by a Catalan.

The League president justified it as this was a potentially violent match.
What? Barça supporters have a total non-history of violence, and that comment was simply unjustified.

I saw on TV a bloke arriving with a Barça shirt and a Spanish flag, "I'm from Almeria and the shirt is because Barça is my team and the flag because Spain is my country".
I bet he didn't have a moment's bother and I did see a few Spanish flags amongst the Barça supporters so he wasn't the only one.

Before the match when the national Anthem was played there was the usual whistling from the Barça section which this year so far has been played down. The stadium audio was turned up to max, and a lot of Seville and neutrals joined in the song even though it doesn't have any words. Good for them, it shows where they stand. Normally I haven't been happy with the whistling but this year I'm pleased they could, it shows the average Catalan still has a bit of distance in this yet.

The use of the term violent is a constant now, yet I see in Nicaragua there are dead on the streets and battles with the police. All that is termed 'protests'. Strange that.
 
Yesterday I read an article by a Catalan who is dead against Independence but thinks that Llarena has gone too far. I thought I would post it here to give a non-indy pov but also to show how a number of non-indy Catalans are not happy with the esteemed judge, so it's not just the separatists. Out of curiosity I looked at the comments section as there were only ten.
On here I have been accused of exaggerating the reaction of the Spanish to the Process, though I have been at pains to say that it is only a certain section of society. Yet that is an important part that is conditioning the political reaction to the situation. If you read you will see that in some eyes there can be no concessions, and only total and utter defeat is the only possible way to end this.
Though how they think you can defeat an idea, an idea which will resurface again, is beyond me.

As an aside to this a student of mine is a rowing coach who works with the national team and was in Seville a couple of weeks back. With a Sevillian colleague he went into a bar and they were having a drink when a man standing next to him proclaimed in a loud voice "Que se mueren todos los Catalanes!" - I hope all the Catalans die!
My mate had a few words and his partner had to be held back, so it's not everybody by any means, but it exists.

So is it important? Well PP spokesman Hernandez today told the Spanish people that they could rest easy because with the PP in government there would be no pardons, no let up, and proper punishments all round.
Because of the battle with Cs which the PP is losing fast, they are upping the rhetoric, and hence the ante, so they have to assure that the voters who think like those above will opt for them.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Process and desire for the referendum and independence, we appear to be getting a lot of knee-jerk reactions and this can only inhibit the possibility of sensible solutions.

Article in the next post.
 
Llarena, leave it now. On another occasion it will be, but this time the State is losing the game. Come on, if what was involved was a return to the law and solve the huge political conflict that arose in Catalonia, the Government and justice are not well orientated or well on track.

Llarena, leave it now because Montoro has just had a new egocentric outburst and says that, embezzlement, nothing. Come on, that the 'indepes' are right. A minister of the Government makes clear to Puigdemont's defense the way forward and in the process wipes his hands in your toga.

Llarena, leave it already because in the reform of the Penal Code of 1995 the figure of the Illegal Declaration of Independence was eliminated because it was considered an antiquity. By the way, in that 95, to the crimes of Sedition and Rebellion, Izquierda Unida added the concept of necessary "violence". So you are looking for a stubborn violence without which the accusations may not crystalise.


Llarena, leave it now because your euro-warrants are basically bankrupt. Confidence among European judiciaries seems to have gone down in history as Puigdemont and company want it to e written, to the natural delight and enjoyment of the 'indepe' universe.

Llarena, leave it now because the executive of Rajoy hides their political incapability behind your toga. If in Spain instead of the current president of the Government, we had a statesman, surely you would not be in your solitary and tangled judicial labyrinth. An autistic and indolent silence has given air and strength to the 'Process'.

Llarena, leave it now because the judicial disproportion can, paradoxically, benefit the accused. We will see what the Constitutional says, because could remove the case from the Supreme Court and the subject would go to ordinary justice.

Llarena, leave it now because according to last minute information the Civil Guard would have hidden the data that would show that there was no misappropriation on 1-0ct. Zoido says that this is not true and that there was embezzlement. Pure coordination, come on.


Llarena, leave it now because the Popular Party and the Government of Spain are up to the eyebrows in corruption cases. A President of the Government capable of facing a problem of the seriousness and dimension of the Catalan situation should be morally faultless and ethical, aesthetically and dialectically irreproachable. The 'Cifuentes case' is the icing on the whole cake.

Llarena, leave it now because this idea of Spain that breathes lately is - as someone has rightly said - very Captain Alatriste. Without taking any responsibility from the independentistas for their immense errors or for their false steps, it is true that the reaction of the State resonates with the "boyfriends of death". The perfect and endless storm.

Alatriste
Alatriste - Wikipedia

Boyfriends of Death a Spanish Legion thing, translates really badly. Better sort of 'wedded to Death'. Civil war and very Right Wing.

Comments: There is only one against, the rest are for.

I read that I am a nazi, and yesterday in another place I saw the term indepnazis, that seems to say it all.


Dear Sardá, pay attention to me, with the nazis.cat it is not possible to negotiate anything at all, the only possible solution, as in 1945, is its absolute destruction, its unconditional surrender. And as of that moment, and only then, the diatribes against the Government (whichever it may be) may be justified. But until then ... nothing at all.

In the end Judge Llarena will pass on like Garzón, who after uncovering corruption, and start prosecuting the guiltyones was the only one punished. To Llarena, after instructing a process for an attempt to unilaterally declare independence, to repeal the constitution and the statute, to organize and encourage participation in a banned referendum, after all this, the independentists will be acquitted, to try again, and judge will demand it, they will denounce it and in the end they will get punished. What a shame!!!! I do not understand that what the independentistas in Catalonia have tried goes unpunished. If we admire the German justice so much, let's start here by outlawing the independence parties just as in Germany, or France. In these countries parties that threaten the territorial unity are not allowed


And LLarena leave it already because no European democratic justice is with you, you and Rajoy alone in front of democracy.

Llarena has the quality to turn into Mandelas those who are more of apartheid and segregationists


Unfortunately, friend Sarda, the Law is so technically strict that, once you have opened the door that leads to a cause, with defendants, of course, it is practically impossible to obey even a friendly "leave it now". It can not be, by procedural prohibitions, by the presumption of professionalism of the one who initiated or allowed to initiate the process and because the particular will has nothing to do with the judicial inertia, which is based on the confidence in the toga as if it woke the goddess Justícia out of herstupor, was for just cause, for the common good, for the coherence of aesthetics and ethics and because letting things go, is not typical of the vigilance, need and reason for being of the ius puniendi of the people, administered by the State, the holder of that
ius through the Public Prosecutor's Office, thus avoiding the savagery of private justice. In addition, it is even more burdensome for a Lawyer to stop doing his work due to the shortcomings of an Executive. That would suppose perhaps the affirming without saying it that everything is one. and it is not. That would suppose to affirm that the division of powers of the State is a fallacy. And if that is affirmed, turn off and let's go because Max Mad is the highlight moment. Let's wait until the end

Llarena is the hero of all the Catalan non-coup d'etatists

Well you must leave it. The German, Swiss, Belgian and British justices are putting it in evidence. They are putting it in evidence from the Ministry of Finance, on the one hand, and from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, on the other, for hiding information. And you should definitely quit it already because someone who acts as a judge and party, with arbitrariness and disproportion is unable to impart justice. In view of his delirious statements, I would suggest that he dedicate himself to fiction.


A magistrate of the Spanish Supreme Court, can not be made to look ridiculous, judges of the same category, or that even if they are "European".

Llarena, do not leave it. Let's see if something good comes out in the midst of this mediocrity.
 
So is it important? Well PP spokesman Hernando today told the Spanish people that they could rest easy because with the PP in government there would be no pardons, no let up, and proper punishments all round.
Because of the battle with Cs which the PP is losing fast, they are upping the rhetoric, and hence the ante, so they have to assure that the voters who think like those above will opt for them.
Further to the above his words were as follows:

The spokesman of the PP in Congress, Rafael Hernando, has assured this Sunday that the enemy is neither the PP nor the Economic Minister, Cristóbal Montoro. "The adversary is the separatists, just as the enemy was ETA," he has stated.

Notice the language equating separatists and ETA. Separatist = terrorist.

In a meeting of Young PP in Madrid, Hernando has stressed that Montoro "was the first to denounce the separatists for embezzlement" of public funds. In addition, he warned that "the pro-independence and the coup d'etat there will be no immunity, or impunity or pardons."

There was embezzlement but Montoro controlled it. This bit with the judge isn't going to be easy.
But also coup d'etat and heavy punishments. Very reactionary.
A commentator on TV, ex-politician made a point that the Spanish want us to share their vision, but then they do it using the heavy hand with a stick, and don't see what is wrong about that.


(As a point try reading about Spanish colonial policy. It's exactly the same.)

The popular spokesman has criticized Cs in crossing their arms and allowing Roger Torrent to be elected president of the Catalan Parliament although they had enough votes to avoid it. Rafael Hernando has also reproached the orange formation because the PP lost a parliamentary group at the table in Parliament. In addition, he has accused them of looking for any excuse to "attack the PP to sit well with their electorate."

I thought they lost their seat at the table because they had an electoral disaster. Plus a typical PP tactic is to accuse everyone else of just what they are doing. When a political party claims everyone is being nasty to them then they are in serious trouble.

For the popular spokesman, in Spain there are two types of Marxism, that of Podemos and the Orange (Cs), which, according to him, is that of" I have some principles but if they do not like them, I have others even if they are opposite ".

Equating Podemos with Marxism is getting desperate, but to equate Cs who are more right wing than PP with marxism smacks of desperation as well as being simply ridiculous.

On ETA, Hernando has assured that while Rajoy governs "there will be no concession to ETA". In addition, lamented the "Manichaeism of the band trying to divide between victims who have deserved to be victims and those who do not", which according to the popular spokesman is "disgusting."

ETA issued a communique this week asking for forgiveness from victims, but qualified it by saying that some victims deserved it. The band is on the point of giving up and dissolving which can only be good.
However the no concessions is a bit passed sell by date if ETA is dissolving, the above equation with separatism makes the comment clearer.
I will however agree with his comment about the victims.


(Manichaeism was an alternative Christianity based on dualism and rebirth and the original message of JC. It was condemned aas heresy and persecuted. History geek hat on here.)
 
Been a bit of a quiet week and I've been a bit busy. But still the show rolls on.

Has there been embezzlement? Judge says yes based on GC reports, some of which may be a bit speculative.
Treasury says no and that they had the accounts controlled.
This put Rajoy in a cleft stick, he has to support the Judge because that's been his policy, but he can't say his Economics Minister is a waste of space.
So his answer was to say that some of the bills could have been falsified, - and hence both are right.
The next day Montoro comes out and says that well maybe yes there could be some falsifications, and thus the party line is well and truly towed, despite his reports to the Judge showing no evidence of said duplicity.
You couldn't make it up could you?

But the PP is under fire at the moment and this, as stated, can only harden postures.
The PP President of Madrid has been forced to resign, though she held on desperately even when the decent thing would have been to go. She falsified her CV with a Masters that she never studied for nor attended classes or exams but was organised by a rector at a Madrid University. This not being enough someone released a video where she is shown to have been shoplifting two pots of hand-cream and her bags being checked by security.
This is the President who was elected on a zero-tolerance for corruption ticket.
Also interesting is that the security tapes are wiped after 30 days and this took place some years ago. So someone was holding onto them. Rascals.
However it is just another chapter in the constant corruption scandals of which the PP seem to have no end.

Also what has pushed Catalunya out of the news is that a trial reached sentencing this week which has caused a huge amount of polemic and indignation.
At the San Fermin Fiesta in Pamplona with the bulls and street parties a group of five young men took a young woman to a quiet place and gang-raped her. They included a Guardia Civil and a soldier. According to them she was up for it. She denies it.
They were found guilty but the Judge reduced the charge from rape to prolonged abuse which results in shorter prison sentences.
This has caused huge indignation with marches and protests, not just with feminists but a fairly wide section of society. The sentence has also come under fire from judges all over.
The Justice Minister said that the government will study if the law needs changing and report later. Translation, we will shelve it for a while and then do nothing.
This can only lead to disenchantment with the government especially among the younger voters who will go elsewhere.
So how does this affect the situation here? Well in a couple of ways, firstly it puts the Justice System under the spotlight as to the fairness of said system, and to its protection of the strong against the weak. This Judge seems to be supporting a system represented as male-dominated and traditional. Confidence in the system is degraded to a fair degree as evidenced by the marches.

Secondly it puts the Government in the hot seat as to what they intend to do, and in an if not unfavourable light, certainly not a favourable one.

Then it holds other cases under consideration up to very unfavourable comparisons which only serves to highten the degradation of confidence in the system.
The boys in Altsasu can go down for a very long time for a bar fight classed as terrorism, yet these others get off lightly.
It was observed that instead of breaking the GC's ankle had they given it to him up the rear end then they would be facing lighter sentences.

A comment:
If you smack a Guardia Civil in civvies it's not a fight it's terrorism and you face 62 years in prison.
If a Guardia Civil in civvies rapes you it isn't rape it is only abuse and he faces 9 years in prison.

Plus a photo which I can't seem to copy on here shows the almost pristine white shirt of the GC Sgt after his 'brutal beating' in Altsasu, and a bloodied white shirt of a Catalan on 1 Oct after the 'application of minimal force proportionally applied'.
Not bleating here but trying to show how the system is under the microscope for its partial readings and interpretations which are not seen as just or fair.
This reflects on a government which has used the courts as an ancilliary, and therefore has its decisions questioned.
Where does it go and what does it do to regain the ground it is rapidly losing?

Meanwhile Puigdemont is holding out for a last minute decision on the Presidency and has not ruled himself out yet once again. This to keep the government under fire as they will not get their budget passed by the Basques while 155 is in place. The continual confrontation tactic I think has passed it's sell by date and did so a while back.
Once lifted the Basques will give the PP their support on this, and perhaps other things as they see Cs as worse.
I see the PP as ready to implode which bodes ill for things all over the board, though they have survived till now and may well continue to do so.

The saga continues.

ed cos missed out a bit.
 
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