Cash, are its days numbered?

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
Morning All,
Anyone who was in India four years ago when Mr. Modi went on t.v. at 20:00 to announce 'De-moneytisation' at midnight and the R/s.500 and R/s.1000 notes would be 'worthless'(my word), will tell you the absolute chaos and deaths that ensured. Lines of people at ATMs 24/7 trying to draw cash that had been restriced to give out only R/s.2000. A lot of people only got by by having hard cash under the matress. It was fckn mental.
Just three days ago I tried to draw cash to pay my rent, only to be told that withdrawals were limited to R/s.5000 but that didn't matter as the machine was empty, as were the only four machines in the town, fckn chaos again. Luckily I had cash to do shopping but not enough to pay the rent as well.
Guess where my hard cash went.
that's why india holds more personal gold than anywhere else - to them it is money.

that new fangled paper stuff is already being replaced but my wedding bangles are still worth more than what they cost.

interestingly they reckon most of the claimed US gold reserves (8,500 tons) is now adorning indian wrists and necks.

which is why it hasn't been audited since the 70s and they refuse to let the germans audit their own 10,500 tons stored in New York
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
I don't know what it's like in the bottom end of the Dark Continent but most third world countries in SE Asia are far in advance of the UK when it comes to e-payments.

You can book airline tickets online, pay by transfer and pop along to an ATM which will print out your boarding pass for you all within minutes. Even car parks and toll roads have gone completely cash (and attendant) free, you pay by phone or card.

You can pay your electricity, phone and other utility bills and taxes on your phone, if you can't do it on your phone an ATM will do it or even at the EPOS machine in most convenience stores. You want to transfer cash to someone else, even with an account in a different bank, you can do so instantly. The last time I transferred cash electronically between my two accounts in different banks in the UK through a combination of doing it at night before a bank holiday weekend it took almost five days to clear.

The largest banknote in Indonesia is worth about GBP 5 so if you want to make big cash transactions you're going to need a suitcase or two and no one can be bothered about that (except crooked cops and government ministers but they use US or Singapore dollars).

I don't think cash will disappear, it will simply be used only as small change for buying a pack of cigarettes or a sandwich.
it's a lot easier to set up new instead of adapt old.

I went into a DIY shop in Dursley a few years ago and asked if he preferred card or cash - he said the bank charged him the same to deposit it regardless.

which is wrong IMO but it shows how much banks value their customers now, they no longer regards savers as an asset since they gained the ability to invent money and turn everyone into debtors.
 

Chef

LE
that's why india holds more personal gold than anywhere else - to them it is money.

that new fangled paper stuff is already being replaced but my wedding bangles are still worth more than what they cost.

interestingly they reckon most of the claimed US gold reserves (8,500 tons) is now adorning indian wrists and necks.

which is why it hasn't been audited since the 70s and they refuse to let the germans audit their own 10,500 tons stored in New York
Couldn't the Germans ask the tooth fairy?
 

mrboo

War Hero
Morning @Chef,
Not related but your point about, buying something and going over the limit, paying cash or walking way made me think of an 80s comedy film. Which I can't remember the name of, with a male lead, who's name escapes me. 1st thought of Richard Prior then Gene Wilder but on checking, apparently not.
Basically, Said lead gets lowest job in a bank and discovers he can siphon off $1 or something, from every account or transaction(?), and gets rich quickly. Can't even remember the outcome so it must've been exceptionally good.
I think I enjoyed it and would like to find it again just to make sure I haven't imagined it but it is pretty relevant...I think!
You are correct with Richard Pryor the film was super man3
 

bedended

War Hero
It’s pretty simple; about 75% of transactions are cashless and about 25% of the population don’t carry cash. So, if you don’t take cards or charge for their use, you’re turning sales away.

Any small business using a bank-provided card machine is paying around 2.5% card fees. Independent providers like Square charge 1.7%, yet most small businesses still use bank provided machines.

If you take cash, you have to count it and take it to the bank. Even if you use a bank POS and pay 2.5%, an hour spent handling cash costs more than the savings you’ve made on 500 transactions of under £5.00.

Hence my comment.
Morning @bobthebuilder,
My bold. Still leaves the majority who do and are these UK figures?
 

mrboo

War Hero
Interesting bit here:

According to the China Channel , nefarious companies are actually PAYING the destitute citizens to be out on the street begging. Because the payments are digital, they can easily take a small cut of each transaction that's processed.
It does not matter if it's cash or cashless someone some where will be looking at a way to skim at bit for them self
 

bedended

War Hero
And removing cash would shine a light on the black economy that they rely on, and perhaps remove the driver to create the beds in sheds underclass
Morning @lokiuk,
As what happened here during de-moneytisation then quietly forgotten about I think, as not heard anything on that front since.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
Couldn't the Germans ask the tooth fairy?
the tooth fairly money went to switzerland and was 'corporate gold' IIRC,

the Germans are getting pretty annoyed with the US over it because they feel they should be able to have their gold in their country as the US is refusing to let them repatriate it. this is causing speculation that it has been leased out and just isn't there anymore.

Venezuala asked for its gold back - a piddly amount but it still took years to get it and the main theory was the US did not have it.

mind you the canadian gold reserve is about gone because they keep selling it off in maples to collectors.

physical gold has a leverage value people like gordon brown failed to understand, you can leverage your physical gold 20 times over and still be credit worthy. - its why the EU is desperate to puddle europes gold into one big pile they can abuse.

for every ounce of physical gold the US sells 200 paper ounces for silver the figure goes up to 2000. and that is what everyones pensions rely on - because pension companies are banned from holding physical gold reserves. it's why a lot on the US and elsewhere are buying gold and silver ounces at less than what they cost to produce in the case of silver.

China has never sold any of its home produced gold on the open market and is still buying it up using some of the US debt that it holds. last estimate I heard was 32,000 tons. Russia has about 12,000.
 
The bloke living hand to mouth as a labourer trying to look after his family is not the one running around with cards, bank accounts and easy internet access. The majority of people you never see in the cities have little access to what the west regards as basic infrastructure.
Sure the fella at the bottom of the pile living on a dollar a day still needs cash but he is accounting for fewer and fewer of the population even in third world countries. And even the poorest who are in receipt of very basic government welfare aren't getting cash, they are getting e-cards that are supposed to be (supposed to be) used only for basic needs.

But hundreds of millions of people who would be termed "poor" by western standards are actually doing alright in their terms. They have mobile phones which are cheap and nasty but connect to basic internet services that allow them to shop, pay bills, transfer money, top up phone credit and use bank services without ever darkening the door of a bank.

You see them at the convenience store checkouts using their phones or cards to buy noodles and pay their electricity bills, pay for train tickets or send money to their mother down in the kampong. Given that most of them (working as security guards, factory workers, cleaners) are paid electronically they will never see cash from one day to the next.

The motorcycle taxis are all operating under big companies now like Uber, and again you order them, they pick you up and drop you off and all of it, including payment, is done on the phone. Likewise the clapped out buses are now using basic tap and enter cards. Cash is dying out in the third world quicker than it is in the West.
 

Glue_Sniffer

Old-Salt
What will you tuck into a stripper's G string without cash?
One of ancient civilizations had "tokens" for use in brothels. It was considered disrespectful to use the Emperor's (or King's) money in such places.
May have been the Romans. Can't remember now.

Anyhow, such tokens could also start trading as a physical currency, and in fact may have been less subject to debasement, as they were actually backed by the service of the prostitute.

In the USA laundry detergent has traded as a currency for some reason.
 
As somebody who works in construction, builders that ask for cash do so for the simple reason, they do not want any money that the taxman can find.

Cash also means cash. It doesn't mean a bank transfer or a cheque, that sort of defeats the object.

Contrary to popular belief, getting paid in cash is not a crime and isn't dodgy. It's the failure to report income to HMRC where it gets sticky.
I'm seeing a lot of them types who having been diddling HMRC for years now in tears as they are getting furlough/grants based on on their tax submissions. I can see HMRC forcing through legisation banning cash transaction in the future to as othre have stated stop black market/undeclared earnings.
 
the tooth fairly money went to switzerland and was 'corporate gold' IIRC,

the Germans are getting pretty annoyed with the US over it because they feel they should be able to have their gold in their country as the US is refusing to let them repatriate it. this is causing speculation that it has been leased out and just isn't there anymore.

Venezuala asked for its gold back - a piddly amount but it still took years to get it and the main theory was the US did not have it.
Have you been listening to Bugsy? Germany repatriates $31 billion in gold from Paris and New York
 
Sure the fella at the bottom of the pile living on a dollar a day still needs cash but he is accounting for fewer and fewer of the population even in third world countries. And even the poorest who are in receipt of very basic government welfare aren't getting cash, they are getting e-cards that are supposed to be (supposed to be) used only for basic needs.

But hundreds of millions of people who would be termed "poor" by western standards are actually doing alright in their terms. They have mobile phones which are cheap and nasty but connect to basic internet services that allow them to shop, pay bills, transfer money, top up phone credit and use bank services without ever darkening the door of a bank.

You see them at the convenience store checkouts using their phones or cards to buy noodles and pay their electricity bills, pay for train tickets or send money to their mother down in the kampong. Given that most of them (working as security guards, factory workers, cleaners) are paid electronically they will never see cash from one day to the next.

The motorcycle taxis are all operating under big companies now like Uber, and again you order them, they pick you up and drop you off and all of it, including payment, is done on the phone. Likewise the clapped out buses are now using basic tap and enter cards. Cash is dying out in the third world quicker than it is in the West.
The world is a lot bigger and a lot poorer than just your part of it. I’m guessing your view of poverty is as you cruise past it in your 4X4.

The very poorest are not even recognised by their government, how can they be getting ‘e-cards’ when they are not registered?

‘Cheap and nasty‘ mobile phones will not have the ability to log on to the internet. Many users of these cheap and nasty mobile phones won’t have the first idea of what the internet is, and they’d probably only have a vague idea of what a bank is.

Poverty is not just having to use a government provided e-card to buy a train ticket, it’s more than likely walking to a field and stealing a couple of potatoes, then walking further to eat them raw, or cook them with scavenged wood scraps.

Poverty is not having a clue how to use a light switch, never mind paying the bill in a local shop.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
Contact payment card waved across their g string that has an embedded card reader
does that work instead of the swipe reader in their clunge?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
last I heard they were still trying to get into the fed to count it and were being refused.

31 billion is not a lot of their reserves - a 1000 tons or so which is what they held in europe as petty cash built up to avoid the fact they couldn't get access to their US stocks..

that still leaves over 10,000 tons in new york.

I last heard they had 11,500 tons though which is what the EU is desperate to get its hands on.

Italy had 2,500 tons last time I checked. enough to support the new lira when it comes.
 

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