Carter attacks Blairs Iraq role

#1
News on the World Service today...

BBC said:
Carter attacks Blair's Iraq role

Former US President Jimmy Carter has criticised outgoing British Prime Minister Tony Blair for his "blind" support of the war in Iraq.

Mr Carter told the BBC Mr Blair's backing for US President George W Bush had been "apparently subservient".

He said the UK's "almost undeviating" support for "the ill-advised policies of President Bush in Iraq have been a major tragedy for the world".

Cont/...
Better listening to the interview . . .
 
#4
Lipo said:
Jimmy Carter is a moral idiot.
So what exactly is a "moral idiot", Lipo? It's obviously something you've heard on FOX or whatever, but explain the expression, please.

By the way, I recently found out that your surname is "Sukshun", so I can understand why you're so embittered. :D :D :D

MsG
 

Lipo

War Hero
#5
I think Jimmy Carter's comments are an insult to Great Britain's sovereignty. It is for this reason that I consider him a moral idiot.
 
#6
Lipo said:
Jimmy Carter is a moral idiot.
No he's a highly moral man and an idiot. Blair being a mediocre British politician is neither of those.

I know several Yanks who clearly saw the strategic folly of going to Baghdad and then were swayed by pious Tony's insistence on the venture. His vapid platitudes did not play as well on this side of the pond.

What's really despicable was his continued spainel like support for the POTUS when the great gamble had failed, disaster was evident and Bush was out cutting brush rather than dealing with it. If ever there was an Administration who needed to be denied a second term it was team Bush. Instead Tony fawned on.

Blair has not served America well with his toadying, the franker Chirac was a better friend. Carter's right to angrilly call it a tragedy. Even an idiot can see that.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#7
Lipo said:
I think Jimmy Carter's comments are an insult to Great Britain's sovereignty. It is for this reason that I consider him a moral idiot.

Well actually I'd say that endangering the long term security and defence of the realm through careless ideological adventures is worse. So on the scale of insults the Bliar is definately more culpable.

We opened a book yesterday on how long you'd been bipedal. Halo Jones said 1979, she right isn't she? You are Homo carterus; not quite got over the loss of proxy control of Iran have you?
 

Lipo

War Hero
#8
LOL You guys are a laugh riot. It's always all about me, eh? Good grief.

This experience has been quite an eye opener. Bolton was right. The foreign office actively works against the prime minister's policies - and in contravention of democratic mandate.

Quite clearly, the problem is systemic and Gordon Brown would be well served demanding the fealty of his subordinates in the foreign office.

Jimmy Carter is a very intelligent man and I admire him in many respects. This doesn't protect him from legitimate criticism however. I fear his progressivism has mutated such that he willingly entertains antisemitism (however reasonably couched) in his attempt to be seen as an "honest broker". This behavior is shameless and vain. Jimmy Carter does no good equivocating between good and evil and indeed, now doesn't seem to recognize the difference.

I regard him as a depressing spectacle in sharp contrast to what he could have been. This is why I think Jimmy Carter is a moral idiot.
 
#9
Whereas your blunt bigotry is morally acceptable because it's overt?
 
#10
Lipo you talk a load of bolleaux. Almost all UK Ambassadors serving in the Mid East warned our PM about the folly of the Iraq War. Guess what? He ignored them. Our PM Blair is a dangerous fool, who is still pretending today that the security situation in Iraq is getting better. The sooner he goes before the ICC the better. A seat in that Court House, would be the hottest in the land.
 
#11
nigegilb said:
Lipo you talk a load of bolleaux. Almost all UK Ambassadors serving in the Mid East warned our PM about the folly of the Iraq War. Guess what? He ignored them. Our PM Blair is a dangerous fool, who is still pretending today that the security situation in Iraq is getting better. The sooner he goes before the ICC the better. A seat in that Court House, would be the hottest in the land.
Ah yes! But John Bolton's argument was that FCO officials have the 'right' to advice - even if it's "plain wrong" - but should follow orders once the policy is set. Irrespective of how foolish said policy is.

He overtly criticised the democratic process as seen in the US/UK and advocates nudging the 'democratic' practices now in place towards more dictatorial methods.

Worrying! :x
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#12
Lipo said:
LOL You guys are a laugh riot. It's always all about me, eh? Good grief.

This experience has been quite an eye opener. Bolton was right. The foreign office actively works against the prime minister's policies - and in contravention of democratic mandate.
Take your American concept of pseudo greek democracy and insert it in your ARRSE.

Firstly this is a constitutional monarchy. Secondly the current monarchy is known as 'The Firm' that means 'current firm'. The Foreign Office is also known as 'The Firm', but more loosely correlates to the 'old firms' (now there's a secret about the vetting process :twisted: ). Personally I give more creedence to people whose family have been in the game for centuries than Blair's breed of idiot...
 
#13
The Foreign Office has no democratic legitimacy. To the extent its agents act in contravention of the Prime Minister's policies, they are in violation of their mandate. John Bolton correctly pointed out that this systemic flaw exists not only in Great Britain but is well entrenched in the United States.

It is a very serious flaw and I hope legislation is enacted to reform these institutions, bring them to heel and make each individual within them answerable to political power.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#14
Lipo said:
The Foreign Office has no democratic legitimacy. To the extent its agents act in contravention of the Prime Minister's policies, they are in violation of their mandate. John Bolton correctly pointed out that this systemic flaw exists not only in Great Britain but is well entrenched in the United States.

It is a very serious flaw and I hope legislation is enacted to reform these institutions, bring them to heel and make each individual within them answerable to political power.
Actually let's hope not. Let's make politicians answerable to agents of the crown; we can start with Tony. Personally I think during a holiday in Tuscany as a sign of renewing old treaties and as a sign of good faith... :twisted:
 
#15
Brilliant idea. Let's turn the entire civil service fraternity in both the US and the UK into 'yes sir' drones only doing precisely as they are told by their political masters.

Nazi Germany springing to mind once again Lipo!
 
#16
Lipo said:
The Foreign Office has no democratic legitimacy. To the extent its agents act in contravention of the Prime Minister's policies, they are in violation of their mandate. John Bolton correctly pointed out that this systemic flaw exists not only in Great Britain but is well entrenched in the United States.

It is a very serious flaw and I hope legislation is enacted to reform these institutions, bring them to heel and make each individual within them answerable to political power.
DO you have any facts or arguments too back up this drivel.
 
#17
halo_jones said:
Lipo said:
The Foreign Office has no democratic legitimacy. To the extent its agents act in contravention of the Prime Minister's policies, they are in violation of their mandate. John Bolton correctly pointed out that this systemic flaw exists not only in Great Britain but is well entrenched in the United States.

It is a very serious flaw and I hope legislation is enacted to reform these institutions, bring them to heel and make each individual within them answerable to political power.
DO you have any facts or arguments too back up this drivel.
No of course he doesn't.

But John Bolton says that he had been briefed by FCO staffers who stated that their ambassador was not negotiating as per direct instructions from No. 10. And he also has over 25 rs of experience of seeing the very same thing by state department officials.

Now tell me Ms Jones, if you did wake up in the morning and find yourself no longer gay, what would your first words be? :D
 
#18
halo_jones said:
Lipo said:
The Foreign Office has no democratic legitimacy. To the extent its agents act in contravention of the Prime Minister's policies, they are in violation of their mandate. John Bolton correctly pointed out that this systemic flaw exists not only in Great Britain but is well entrenched in the United States.

It is a very serious flaw and I hope legislation is enacted to reform these institutions, bring them to heel and make each individual within them answerable to political power.
DO you have any facts or arguments too back up this drivel.
You just quoted my argument back to me. Listen to John Bolton.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/ram/today5_20070517.ram

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/05/and-your-point-is.html

Deliciously, though, Bolton names names, singling out Jeremy Greenstock, the British ambassador to the UN in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, and his successor Sir Emyr Jones Parry, who is still in the post. "Greenstock was a lot of the problem," he says.

Warming to his theme, Bolton tells us that British diplomats were vehemently opposed to much of what Mr Blair wanted to do. "On Iraq in particular, they didn't like it. It reflected the increasingly Eurocentric view of the Foreign Office, where they're just not as Atlanticist as they used to be."

For those of us who have long concluded that the Foreign Office has become a branch of the EU Commission – a London sub-office of Brussels - we can thus immediately accept the validity of Bolton’s comment that, "This is probably the biggest split between the Foreign Office and the British people as a whole, who remain basically at least somewhat Eurosceptic."

Eurocentric bad. Atlanticist good.
 
#19
The fact that Blair sent Greenstock to Baghdad as his 'personal' envoy is of course lost on John Bolton - and by definition, Lipo too.
 
#20
I know all he can do is soundbite bolton in this argument.

Lipo has as much expericane of the working of government and the Civil Service as he does of military service.

none
 

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