Carrying firearms on public transport

#1
Any shooting experts here? I need to carry my (licenced) .22 Rimfire & am currently without car: is it legal & acceptable to take it on public transport? Thanks
 
#2
that's a public place per se - so no is the answer
possession of a section 1 firearm in a public place etc etc
 
#3
here you are, from the CPS website



Section 19 Carrying firearm in public place. SO

TEW
Summary 6 months or a fine of the prescribed sum; or both.
On indictment (but not if the firearm is an air weapon or imitation).7 years or a fine; or both.
If the firearm is an air weapon or imitation

For shotgun or other firearm

NB on or after 01 October 2007 imitation firearms are TEW with 12 months on indictment

May be subject to Mandatory Minimum Sentence see s30 VCRA 2006
 
#4
I beg to differ. Carrying a firearm in a public place is lawful if you have a 'lawful authority or reasonable excuse'. Extract from Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police 2002 below:

Carrying firearms in a public place
(section 19 of the 1968 Act)


22.12 Section 19 of the 1968 Act makes it an
offence to have in a public place without
lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the
proof whereof lies on the accused) a loaded
air weapon or a loaded shot gun, or any
other firearm, whether loaded or not,
together with ammunition suitable for use in
that firearm. Care should be taken to ensure
that those who may have lawful authority or
reasonable excuse to carry firearms in a
public place are not unnecessarily
inconvenienced.

22.13 Section 57(6) of the 1968 Act includes
a definition of “loaded” in relation to shot
guns and air weapons. An air weapon is to
be treated as loaded if there is a pellet in the
breach, even if the compression necessary to
fire the gun is not present; and in the case of
a shot gun or air weapon having a loaded
magazine, the gun is to be treated as loaded,
even though there is no round in the breech.

22.14 The definition of a “public place” in
section 57(4) of the 1968 Act is the same as
that in section 1(4) of the Prevention of
Crime Act 1953, specifically “any highway
and any other premises or place to which at
the material time the public have or are
permitted to have access, whether on
payment or otherwise”. For Scotland, the
word “highway” in the definition of “public
place” in section 57(4) has been deleted and
replaced by “road (within the meaning of the
Roads (Scotland) Act 1984)”. Relevant case
law here is Anderson v Miller and Another,
QBD 1997.

22.15 Members of an approved rifle or
muzzle-loading pistol club who carry club
firearms and ammunition for the purpose of
club shoots at ranges away from their home
club premises benefit from the provisions of
section 15 of the 1988 Act. People so doing
might be encouraged to carry written
authority from their club secretary or club
official and a copy of the club certificate.
Firearms removed from club premises for the
purpose of participating in competitions
should be returned, without delay, to the club
storage after the competition, unless it is
impracticable to do so.
 
#6
Thanks for all the help - think I'll err on the side of caution and wait for my car to be fixed!
 
#7
So a sensible answer for our enquirer:

It is no more an offence to be in possession of a lawfully held firearm on public transport than it is anywhere else.

However, note the following:

The carrier may have "conditions of carriage" that restrict the right to carry firearms. On the railway it is currently "prohibited except where it isn't" clear as mud and totally stupid. Bus operators will have their own arrangements. Airlines need you to check in in advance, "internal" ferries rarely present a problem. Ok on Eurostar but you can't take ammunition. Not sure about continental ferries but doubt it would be a problem.

How's that?
 
B

BambiBasher

Guest
#8
Just keep the gun in a case or slip and you'll be fine. If it really were utterly illegal to have a gun in a public place, how would you get it from the gun shop to your car? I've carried guns on trains many times and never had a problem. Keep it in sight, remove the bolt, don't have ammo with it in the case.
 
#9
Don't forget that the inside of your car is also considered a "public place", so there is technically no difference anyway.

So far as I understand, it remains perfectly legal to have a firearm in a public place so long as it is in some sort of cover. One dealer I know lets his customers leave the shop with their rifle in a clear plastic bag - thus being fully visible to Joe public. His local Police have confirmed to him that this is perfectly acceptable.

Transport restriction only apply where the operator has made specific restrictions. In UK that unfortunately means that many have fallen in with the "ban everything" mentality...
 
#11
4(T) said:
Don't forget that the inside of your car is also considered a "public place", so there is technically no difference anyway.

So far as I understand, it remains perfectly legal to have a firearm in a public place so long as it is in some sort of cover. One dealer I know lets his customers leave the shop with their rifle in a clear plastic bag - thus being fully visible to Joe public. His local Police have confirmed to him that this is perfectly acceptable.

Transport restriction only apply where the operator has made specific restrictions. In UK that unfortunately means that many have fallen in with the "ban everything" mentality...
In most circumstances there is actually no requirement for a cover. Only applies to youngsters with air rifles and shotguns. You'll look long and hard to find legislation that says otherwise. ('cause there is none! ;) )

That said, using a cover is reasonable and practical.
 
#12
Buy a police hat off e bay and rush round with weapon out asking if anyone has seen a terrorist
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
Why risk it? Because there is no risk, you are not breaking any laws, if a plod jumps and claims public order or VCR then you are still within the firearms acts and therefore exempt. You dont need to carry your license but I would as a matter if you dont want the petty plastic plod grief!
Remember most plod dont know let alone understand firearms laws and are only briefed to relevant changes if their CoC is any good!
 
#14
creepy said:
that's a public place per se - so no is the answer
possession of a section 1 firearm in a public place etc etc
Complete and utter bollocks.
As long as the firearm is covered, and therefore not in plain sight, no offence is committed.
 
#15
dropshortRE said:
creepy said:
that's a public place per se - so no is the answer
possession of a section 1 firearm in a public place etc etc
Complete and utter balls.
As long as the firearm is covered, and therefore not in plain sight, no offence is committed.
Even if it's uncovered in plain sight no offence is committed as I stated above.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
The only time they can get you for it being uncovered is the harrassment and "Likely to cause" fear etc rules which are tosh but on the statute book!
 
#17
EX_STAB said:
dropshortRE said:
creepy said:
that's a public place per se - so no is the answer
possession of a section 1 firearm in a public place etc etc
Complete and utter balls.
As long as the firearm is covered, and therefore not in plain sight, no offence is committed.
Even if it's uncovered in plain sight no offence is committed as I stated above.
True, But although no offence would be commited it's probably not the best idea to walk about with an uncovered rifle. Especially if you are from Brazil or here illegaly.
 
#20
ugly said:
The only time they can get you for it being uncovered is the harrassment and "Likely to cause" fear etc rules which are tosh but on the statute book!
Intent required though I think:

"With intent to cause fear of unlawful violence" rings a bell.
 
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