Carriers delayed / cancelled?

Discussion in 'Tanks, planes & ships' started by the_guru, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. BBC news ( 5 Live ) are reporting that the new carriers may be delayed or scrapped due to the Credit Crunch. No specific detail from the BBC, just speculation. They got the speculation from somewhere though..

    Sounds to me like the Govt is floating the idea to test the water of opinion before announcing anything.

    Shameless cnuts.
  2. Equally it sounds like a quiet-ish news day so someone somewhere decides to speculate....just as likely it's easy, lazy journalism.
  3. I see what you did there
  4. Labour's recovery plans for the UK Economy:

    1. Borrow more to spend

    2. Spend on large scale public works/projects

    3. Buy out banks and let them crack on as per usual without learning any lessons...

    Point 2 applies here, would a multi billion pound contract help or hinder the UK economy, especially one that will be sourcing a large amount of UK based work, retain skilled workforce etc..

    Or would it be easier to fcuk it all off and put the money in the dole pot instead. New Liebour = no contest.
  5. Bottom line is, and will be for some time that no decisions have been made. All manner of options are being looked at (as anyone with experience of planning rounds will know) and people are speculating on them. Until the final decision is made in a few months time, anything else remains pure speculation, but I fully expect to see lots of false calls on the outrage bus in this time.
  6. If cancelled, would save having to find umpteen further billions for some aircraft to put on them. :D
  7. The navy has already sold its soul for the carriers, why would they be cancelled now?

    They are already budgeted for aint they?
  8. The contracts and the sub-contracts have already been placed. They won't be pulled in a million years.
  9. You are taking the p1ss aren't you? Slow news day?

    Turn the news on tit head.

    Mr Sniffer, good spot. You should be in Intelligence ;-)
  10. Maybe what (s)he wanted to say was, is HMG doing a 'Jo Moore' and trying to "bury bad news"?
  11. Hello roadster280,

    a good point well made.

    We had planned to spend about £6,000 Million on the production phase of the F35.
    Back then that bought us $12,000 Million U.S..
    With the recent exchange rate changes we now need £8,000 Million to buy the same aircraft.
    I can't see where that extra money is going to come from.

    With F35 costs more than doubled many nations are thinking of pulling out.
    Other "one fighter" nations will not be interested in buying it if it is inferior to the Typhoon in air to air combat,that is also a big negative for a carrier aircraft.
    Even the Americans will never be able buy the numbers they wanted.
    As orders are cut unit costs will go even higher.
    They will never build anything like the 3,000 that production costs were planned around.

    F35 is likely to go the way of the Royal Navy's Phantoms.
    A large order for "cheap" foreign aircraft turns into a very small order for incredibly expensive aircraft.

    The main impediment to navalising Typhoon is the design of the carriers themselves.
    Having had to retire many aircraft carriers in the past due to their inadequate size and speed,the Royal Navy took the perverse decision to build ships which are slower and shorter than the American carriers.
    Given that the Americans are the most likely source of dedicated naval combat aircraft,this is far from sensible.
    It costs very little to build a larger,faster ship,it costs a great deal to operate aircraft from ships which are too short and too slow.

    To top things off,we have been cutting corners on the construction standards of the carriers,presumably so we can squander more money on the next to useless Type 45 destroyers.
    The Type 45s and the F35s are the real black holes in the defence budget.
    Without them we could have had a very strong Navy even within the current budget.

    I am very much in favour of a strong carrier fleet but I would be quite happy to see these carriers and the F35 cancelled.


    Edited to add,it would be quite amusing to hear the government explain why they are cancelling the major capital project they recently cited as an example of how they were going to be spending their way out of recession.
  12. I drew a similar conclusion a while back.

    And as an out of the box idea, I propose the procurement of a sizeable fleet of Bay/Albion Class (LSD/LPD) type vessels. Relatively cheap to build and offering all sorts of roles if a bit of lateral imagination is applied. Add a decent hanger capable of accomodating Merlin ASW or Chinook or MASC or ..... Add some TLAM launchers. Add some ASTER launchers - networked from T45 or other radar platform. You can carry a decent marine complement for anti-pirating or stop and search and so on, and so on.

    Do you really think 'we' are ever going to operate independent of a USN carrier BG on anything other than minor scale.

    Standing by for incoming.... :D