Carrier Strike A/C anyone?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Schaden, Jul 31, 2007.

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  1. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

  2. Nice, didn't they pull out of the Euro fighter programme to produce that?
  3. It looks like a decent bit of kit on first glance. Rafale have made some good aircraft. On the down side would you want to live with the knowledge that your flying a French plane of a French built carrier for the Royal Navy?
  4. Yep, the French withdrew from the Eurofighter programme because no one else wanted a carrier capable version. Rafale is a very nice aircraft with nice sensors and an ok warload. However, it is hampered by a surprising lack of thrust and is inferior to both Typhoon and (hopefully!) the F-35.

  5. Not inferior if you want to fly it off a boat though!

    Can Typhoon do a CAP over Pitcairn island?
  6. Well, why don't we get ourselves Navalised Typhoons then? ;)
  7. Surley we could buy the airframe and throw in some feck off big Roles Royce engines, that would solve the thrust problems. Bespoke avionices suite from a Brit contractor. It will work in boats and land and will still keep jobs in the UK. Win win?
  8. Have to disagree with you there M_M. My understanding is that apparently, the reason that they withdrew from the Eurofighter programme is that they wanted to be given the design and manufacture lead on this project and the other partners to be made sub-contractors. The other partners (UK, Germany, Spain and Italy) were having none of this and so the Froggies went off in a Gallic huff and developed Rafale instead.
  9. That could yet happen if the F-35 went seriously nipples pointing to the sky.
  10. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    As opposed to what they have now?
  11. FC - MM is correct, as are you...

    In essence, the French view of collaboration was that they had design leadership, the engines would be from a French-led consortium and the avionics would be from a French-led consortium. Naturally enough, the other partners demonstrated that 'F*** off' is a multilingual concept and invited the French to do so...

    However, there is a suspicion that the French realised that they wouldn't get the aircraft they wanted - carrier capability being a secondary concern that the other partners [notably Germany, Italy and Spain] might jib at and refuse to fund - so they decided to go nuclear in the negotiations to get out as quickly as possible. Anything less might have led to attempts to keep them on board, so they concluded they'd be best served by getting out and never mind what anyone else thought of them; SOP which the FCO would do well to learn - national interest comes above hurting other nations' feelings... [well, apart from blowing up boats in friendly harbours, of course].
  12. You put it so much better than I ever could :D
  13. Also, isn't there a problem that the French carriers ar too small for it, the naval Rafele, to use?
  14. Ex Stab,

    I didn't suggest it could. Land based and carrier based aviation each have advantages over the other. My point is, we have Typhoon and we're getting F-35, both of which are superior to Rafale by quite a measure.

    Bobath, Crabby,

    It would cost an absolute fortune to strengthen the Typhoon airframe for carrier ops. Although BAeS have looked at it and it is feasible, the cost would be prohibitative given we'd have to do it on our tod for a relatively small production run.

    Likewise, you can't just 'throw in' new avionics let alone engines. The latter would require redesign of intake inlets and most probably the rear fuselage structure. This in turn would need new flight control software etc. We tried it in the 60s when we insisted on sticking the Rolls Royce Spey and different avionics into the F-4. Result, a more costly, less capable F-4 than everyone else. Can you imagine how much the French would charge?!

    Personally I don't think F-35 will get canned. Delayed further yes. But not canned. Even the F-35B variant seems to be looking more solid now although the USAF seem to be cooling to a split purchase of A and B models. If we didn't get F-35, I'd probably go for FA-18E/F with Rafale as a close second.


    No. The deck of CDG had to be redesigned to cater for the E-2C but Rafale has always been fine. Both now operate no worries.

  15. Aparently we have looked at Rafele or navalised Typhoon already as a contingency if the JSF projuect goes t*ts. This is a possibility as I believe they're still haing problems with the MOU.