Carrier deal signed by MoD

#3
Wow, talk about inflation, since I posted the news the price has gone up by £200 million!
 
#4
I thought they were already under construction.... ?
 
#6
Great news for the navy and the services as a whole, hopefully they won't be canceled before their commissioning, otherwise it would once again rob this country of true blue-water power projection.


Off Topic:
WhiteHorse said:
Wow, talk about inflation, since I posted the news the price has gone up by £200 million!
It is ZANU Labour, country will now come to be known as Britbabwe....
 
#7
Maybye I'm missing something here, but where exactly is the manpower coming from to man those bad boys? Even my sandfilled landlubber brain knows that they're not tubs crewed by 1 man and a dog.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Good news all-round. The price has dropped considerably due to various MOD budget cuts. The ships will now share one Phalanx between them for close-in defence, and the fighter aircraft will have the concrete 30mm cannon that were earmarked for the Eurofighter - waste not, want not.
 
#9
muzzleflash said:
Maybye I'm missing something here, but where exactly is the manpower coming from to man those bad boys? Even my sandfilled landlubber brain knows that they're not tubs crewed by 1 man and a dog.
Even though they are a lot bigger they require about the same crew as our current carriers.
 
#10
I have constantly amended this post so you will have to read the edits as you go through, marked by its number in *'s, you will find them at the bottom of the post]

Well there are currently 2 Invincible-class aircraft carriers* (1000 crew each x2 = 2000) and 9 Type 42 destroyers (287 each x9 = 2583). These will be replaced by 2 Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers (600 each x2=1200**) and 6 Type 45's (190 each x6 = 1140).

So 4583 men will be replaced by 2340., this is presumably due to increased automation as well as a lesser number of frigates.




*[though designated Through Deck Command Carriers]

**[[It may be 600 ship crew, excluding air crew - Invincible class has 650 ships crew, plus 350 aircrew. If this is the case and we assume a relative proportion then the new total number of the entire crew would be 600 + 323.076922 so the entire complement of all the replacement ships would be 2986.076922]***]****

*** [subject to human error]

***[I have now found that the entire complement is in fact 1,450 (including air crew), which will bring the total complement of the replacement ships to be 4040. Sorry for the confusion.]
 
#11
There was an interview on BBC radio a short while ago where Des Browne put up a pretty fair defence of the purchase, showing that just occasionally he does pull himself together. I 'think' he was effectively saying once one had translated the politician speak, that if we don't have these then we move to the second division in military terms.
 
#12
Recruiting_Office_reject said:
There was an interview on BBC radio a short while ago where Des Browne put up a pretty fair defence of the purchase, showing that just occasionally he does pull himself together. I 'think' he was effectively saying once one had translated the politician speak, that if we don't have these then we move to the second division in military terms.
Don't you mean remain in the second division?
 
#13
Cynics are muttering that Sarkozy will be so pleased as it is all part of his grand plan for the EU Navy.

Rubbish, cry the Government. No such thing. These will always be assets under our full and complete control. Oh really:

David Miliband backs French plans for stronger EU defence role

"David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, has thrown Britain's weight behind French plans for a stronger European Union role in defence policy and insisted this posed no threat to Nato.
Instead, Mr Miliband said it would avoid the danger of Europe waiting "impotently" until America and Nato were ready to intervene in trouble-spots.

France, which now holds the EU's rotating presidency, has announced that deepening military cooperation between member states will be a key priority."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...rench-plans-for-stronger-EU-defence-role.html
 
#14
western said:
Recruiting_Office_reject said:
There was an interview on BBC radio a short while ago where Des Browne put up a pretty fair defence of the purchase, showing that just occasionally he does pull himself together. I 'think' he was effectively saying once one had translated the politician speak, that if we don't have these then we move to the second division in military terms.
Don't you mean remain in the second division?
Hre means it will be a promotion from the Blue Square Premiership (South).
 
#15
Recruiting_Office_reject said:
pretty fair defense of the purchase....... that if we don't have these then we move to the second division in military terms.
I thought it was because the jobs are in Gordon Browns constituency?
 
#16
Blogg said:
Cynics are muttering that Sarkozy will be so pleased as it is all part of his grand plan for the EU Navy.

Rubbish, cry the Government. No such thing. These will always be assets under our full and complete control. Oh really:

David Miliband backs French plans for stronger EU defence role

"David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, has thrown Britain's weight behind French plans for a stronger European Union role in defence policy and insisted this posed no threat to Nato.
Instead, Mr Miliband said it would avoid the danger of Europe waiting "impotently" until America and Nato were ready to intervene in trouble-spots.

France, which now holds the EU's rotating presidency, has announced that deepening military cooperation between member states will be a key priority."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...rench-plans-for-stronger-EU-defence-role.html
I hear the frogs are considering a carrier of very similar design, how convenient.

Future developments
The French Navy is undertaking a significant reinforcement, both in modernising and in number, under the Projet de loi de programmation militaire 2003–2008 ("Military programme law project 2003–2008")[3] , which notably calls for:

A second aircraft carrier (not yet ordered) to be delivered before 2015, the start of a scheduled repair and maintenance period for the nuclear powered Charles De Gaulle. The new carrier will be built in cooperation with a British programme for two 65,000 ton conventionally-powered aircraft carriers, with alterations to best fit French needs and better benefit from French construction capabilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Navy

Also:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3953901.ece
Talk of sharing carriers with frogs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2147016/Royal-Navy-warships-may-form-part-of-EU-fleet.html
Future EU Navy.


Are these the first steps of an EU Navy due in 2015? I wonder what Nelson would think?

&tc,

~D.C.
 
#17
They just interviewed the First Sea Lord on Radio 4 'World at one' whom seems to be following the same football analogy. He said that three things keep Britain & the RN in the 'Premiership', Nuclear subs, good amphib capability, and the ability to project power from the sea which we will now continue to have.
 
#18
Generalissimo said:
Recruiting_Office_reject said:
pretty fair defense of the purchase....... that if we don't have these then we move to the second division in military terms.
I thought it was because the jobs are in Gordon Browns constituency?
Ohhh you wicked, wicked person! how could you:

The contracts will create or secure:

3,000 jobs at Govan, Glasgow

1,600 at Rosyth, Fife,

1,200 in Portsmouth

400 in Barrow in Furness
 
#19
Jobs secured in Fife which happens to be Broons homeland. Jobs secured in Govan which happens to be in the vicinity of an upcoming Bye Election. Jobs secured in Barrow which happens to be in the North West TV area, the same North West area as Crewe and Nantwich.

Meanwhile, defence analysts are saying we can't afford to build it and that the impact on procurement for other branches will be dire, the Navy are saying the aircraft for it won't be ready in time and half the current Navy is tied up alongside without the funding to put to sea.

So given that we can't afford to run it, the bods to crew it don't exist, the aircraft to fight from it are still on the drawing board and the performance of 65,000 tonne aircraft carriers on sand or rough terrain is yet to be proven, I'd say a pretty fair result all round.
 

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