Canadian saluting and rank structure

#1
when I visited a Canadian Cadet Unit in Edmonton 2 weeks ago, I noticed that they salute similar to the Americans and Have a rank structure using Bar codes on their arms.

then when i visited The Museum of the Regiments in Calgary, I noticed in many old uniforms and old photographs, that the uniform is similar to The British style and the Rank Insignia and the Salutes are the same as the Bristish army.

when did this change and why ?

it just seemed odd to me given our shared history under one Sovereign and Government systems, how did you guys feel about it ?
 
#2
Ah, amalgamation. Back in 1968 the Royal Canadian Navy, Canadian Army and Royal Canadian Air Force ceased to exist. The three elements were combined into the Canadian Forces and all members of the previous three services were offered the option to serve in the Canadian Forces or get out. This was known as "Consent To Serve".

The Canadian Forces has no air force, navy or army as separate entities. We have the Chief of the Maritime Staff (Navy), Chief of the Land Staff (Army) and Chief of the Air Staff (Air Force) which all report to the Chief of the Defence Staff (rotates between the three elements. Our "purple" or support trades (supply technicians, medical staff, office clerks, cooks, etc) can wind up serving on a ship this year, in a battalion on deployment or at an airforce base/squadron. I personally have served with 402 Squadron and 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (I was infantry, am now a clerk).

At the time of amalgamation, the distinctive ranks were lost (except the navy which lost the Executive Curl, but kept the names) and were standardized in symbology. Hence, Squadron Leaders ceased to exist and became, roughly, Lieutenant-Colonels. The NCM ranks were also changed - no more staff sergeants or flight sergeants. These ranks were essentially, although at a somewhat later time, made into Warrant Officers, being below Master Warrant Officers (CSMs), but above Sergeants.

Various ceremonies and traditions were dumped and Pierre Elliot Himselfness (Trudeau) was quite keen on getting as far away from our British-based roots and traditions as possible.

The concept of amalgamation has been a dismal failure and in almost everything but name and the liability to serve in various elements, we have re-established three services.

This is a very condensed version of events that took years to unfold, with a whole crapload of subleties and struggles that went along with them. But, this is the gist of it. If you have any specific questions, fire away, I will answer them as best I can, but I stand open to correction.
 
#3
Pierre Elliot Trudeau, quel suprise, a bloody frog!

Why haven't you Canuks sent the surrender monkeys back to froggy land yet?
 
#4
France didn't want them (check out what happened at the Plains Of Abraham). Besides, the women are hot, at least once you teach them to shave, and not just their pits.
 
#6
wotan said:
At the time of amalgamation, the distinctive ranks were lost (except the navy which lost the Executive Curl, but kept the names) and were standardized in symbology. Hence, Squadron Leaders ceased to exist and became, roughly, Lieutenant-Colonels. The NCM ranks were also changed - no more staff sergeants or flight sergeants. These ranks were essentially, although at a somewhat later time, made into Warrant Officers, being below Master Warrant Officers (CSMs), but above Sergeants.
The Canadians also have Chief Warrant Officers which are similar to our Command Sergeant Majors and Chief Master Sergeants (USAF). Causes some confusion with US Warrant Ranks, particularly with the Canadian Air Force Warrants who aren't Sergeant Majors.
 
#7
Chief_Two said:
wotan said:
At the time of amalgamation, the distinctive ranks were lost (except the navy which lost the Executive Curl, but kept the names) and were standardized in symbology. Hence, Squadron Leaders ceased to exist and became, roughly, Lieutenant-Colonels. The NCM ranks were also changed - no more staff sergeants or flight sergeants. These ranks were essentially, although at a somewhat later time, made into Warrant Officers, being below Master Warrant Officers (CSMs), but above Sergeants.
The Canadians also have Chief Warrant Officers which are similar to our Command Sergeant Majors and Chief Master Sergeants (USAF). Causes some confusion with US Warrant Ranks, particularly with the Canadian Air Force Warrants who aren't Sergeant Majors.
Oh ffs, not you again? Havent you cottoned on yet that nobody gives a fcuk that youre the equivilent rank of an RAF police dog.
 
#8
The Lord Flasheart said:
Chief_Two said:
wotan said:
At the time of amalgamation, the distinctive ranks were lost (except the navy which lost the Executive Curl, but kept the names) and were standardized in symbology. Hence, Squadron Leaders ceased to exist and became, roughly, Lieutenant-Colonels. The NCM ranks were also changed - no more staff sergeants or flight sergeants. These ranks were essentially, although at a somewhat later time, made into Warrant Officers, being below Master Warrant Officers (CSMs), but above Sergeants.
The Canadians also have Chief Warrant Officers which are similar to our Command Sergeant Majors and Chief Master Sergeants (USAF). Causes some confusion with US Warrant Ranks, particularly with the Canadian Air Force Warrants who aren't Sergeant Majors.
Oh ffs, not you again? Havent you cottoned on yet that nobody gives a fcuk that youre the equivilent rank of an RAF police dog.
Bo11ocks he is, some people take notice if an RAF Police Dog is speaking.
 
#9
Lord Flasheart - for your information:

The Canadian Warrant Officer ranks are:

Warrant Officer (E7)
Master Warrant Officer (E8)
Chief Warrant Officer (E9)
 
#11
Chief_Two said:
Lord Flasheart - for your information:

The Canadian Warrant Officer ranks are:

Warrant Officer (E7)
Master Warrant Officer (E8)
Chief Warrant Officer (E9)

I never asked.

Please dont ruin sempers thread with your utter tripe about US Warrants. No one cares. If they did, they would ask.
 
#12
The Lord Flasheart said:
Chief_Two said:
Lord Flasheart - for your information:

The Canadian Warrant Officer ranks are:

Warrant Officer (E7)
Master Warrant Officer (E8)
Chief Warrant Officer (E9)

I never asked.

Please dont ruin sempers thread with your utter tripe about US Warrants. No one cares. If they did, they would ask.
I'm not.

The Canadian WO is equivalent to a Sergeant First Class in the US Army and often a Platoon Warrant Officer
 
#13
But....at officer level the Canadian Forces (CF) has British Army terminology for the Army and Air Force (as in Capts, Majs, LCol [same as but different spelling to Lt Col] etc but the Navy have the Royal Navy ranks as in Lt(N) Lt Cdr Cdr etc. And...all wear the same strip/bar/ring rank system as the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. So every one is the same but, er different... Worse still -all wear the same combats but the Air Force have blue rank rings and blue writing on their name tags. Yuk.

It is quicker to General in the CF too as Brigadiers are called "General"!!!

Warrants are SSgt equivalents in Brit speak, BTW
 
#15
thank you , I have seen the stripes and RSM equivilent coat of arms as per UK type, they do look smart and the maple leaf is a nice touch, but i couldn't get over the Bar codes, sorry to be blunt , it did look a bit wänky as you used to have British style pips and crowns which has quite a long tradition behind it.
 
#16
I think moving to the system of bars for officers was a concession to the RCN. They did lose the Executive Curl, but kept the basic look of the rank. As well, the RCAF used bars/stripes for officers, so there may have been some consideration there as well. This is just speculation on my part, I don't have any written info to back it up.

Quite often here in Canuckistan we will have UK officers on exchange or visiting from BATU Suffied or BLO Wainwright. If a major (wearing a crown) happens to be the unlucky lad, often he/she will find themselves being greeted with a cheery "Good morning, Warrant" as the crown is the rank symbol for a Warrant Officer here. Most take it in good humour, the odd one gets upset that Canadian soldiers aren't taught NATO ranks.

The system we have now works and probably won't change for the foreseeable future. Certain of the army trades (RCEME, Armoured Corps, Artillery) have kept the old names for the ranks at the NCM level. A private of the RCEME is usually referred to as a "Craftsman", and armoured private as "Trooper" and arty types as "Gunner", "Bombardier", etc.

Of course, we also have the rank that really isn't a rank, but rather an appointment - Master Corporal. Above Corporals, but below Sergeants. Roughly fills the same role as a Corporal in UK forces.
 
#17
saw a few of them, i did get confused a bit , when i saw a lance corporal stripe on a private and he refered to himself as a private, when in the UK system a privaite has no chevrons at all on his side.

seemed the system is working as the new generation don't know any different, I couldn't help feeling you lost some important stuff along the way, having said that I am talking from a UK perspective, you probably have no problems with it.
 
#18
wotan said:
Quite often here in Canuckistan we will have UK officers on exchange or visiting from BATU Suffied or BLO Wainwright. If a major (wearing a crown) happens to be the unlucky lad, often he/she will find themselves being greeted with a cheery "Good morning, Warrant" as the crown is the rank symbol for a Warrant Officer here. Most take it in good humour, the odd one gets upset that Canadian soldiers aren't taught NATO ranks.
I wonder how a British Company Sergeant Major (WO2) who also wears a crown would react to 'Good Morning, Warrant' :omfg: :omfg:
 
#19
semper said:
thank you , I have seen the stripes and RSM equivilent coat of arms as per UK type, they do look smart and the maple leaf is a nice touch, but i couldn't get over the Bar codes, sorry to be blunt , it did look a bit wänky as you used to have British style pips and crowns which has quite a long tradition behind it.
Well we used them until WW1 along with pips, crowns etc. Look at the cuff lace - it has rings equivalent to naval rings! It was done away with because it made the officers too easy to spot for snipers I believe and just the pips, crowns etc were transferred to the shoulder. This practice only became permanent in 1920.

You can see the rings on the photo here:

http://w3.westernfrontassociation.com/thegreatwar/articles/standto!/N45insigniabritisharmy.htm
 
#20
Chief_Two said:
wotan said:
At the time of amalgamation, the distinctive ranks were lost (except the navy which lost the Executive Curl, but kept the names) and were standardized in symbology. Hence, Squadron Leaders ceased to exist and became, roughly, Lieutenant-Colonels. The NCM ranks were also changed - no more staff sergeants or flight sergeants. These ranks were essentially, although at a somewhat later time, made into Warrant Officers, being below Master Warrant Officers (CSMs), but above Sergeants.
The Canadians also have Chief Warrant Officers which are similar to our Command Sergeant Majors and Chief Master Sergeants (USAF). Causes some confusion with US Warrant Ranks, particularly with the Canadian Air Force Warrants who aren't Sergeant Majors.
Fcuk off, cnuty chops.
 

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