Canadian Parachute Regiment and Somalia

#2
Twp things say a heck of a lot to me. Canadian SF - almost an oxymoron in itself - and Canadian government. Rather like the ginger one's Liberals on a bad day. Almost a perfect description of a disaster when you put the two together.
 
#3
It was Canadian Airborne Regiment. Not really a Regiment in the traditional sense, more like a mini Brigade Group.

Yes, it was excessive to punish by disbanding the whole Regiment. But that is politics in Canada. The government there has turned the whole Armed Forces into a big social experiment anyway.

But don't worry, Unification is obviously the way forward, and after almost 40 years, I'm sure other countries are still considering it as a viable option.
 
#4
First found out about this in Bosnia in 95/6 , there was an article and pic in a croat army mag.

We had a canadian officer with us at the time who expalined about it and said it was embarissing

Also there were ex member of the unit over there with us
 
#6
God help the Canadian Armed Forces - the Liberals' PC attack dogs have them by the scruff of the neck.
 
#7
A sordid affair that serves well to highlight the support the Armed Forces can expect from their Political Masters and Goverment....

No doubt 'someone' not too far from our hearts 'n' minds has been taking lessons from the back-stabbin **** ...... just wait for the fall out from current 'play area' ......... bet it wont be their fault!!! ..... c*nts :evil:
 
#8
Done a few things with the Canadians, firstly they appear to outsiders as a divided army!!, they have French Canadian speaking Units and English Canadian speaking Units, there is lots of bitter twisted rivalry some of it from what I have seen is quite harsh.

All there pamphlets were printed front to centre in English, back to centre in French that included all daily orders.

I spent some time with the PTS at Greaseback Camp just before they moved to Trenton, here once again I was made welcome and was impressed by there work but still at SNCO level there was a divide of French/English.

On a handover from the vandoos? Infantry to the PPCLI Infantry in Bosnia the vandoos ensured that the PPCLI would be unoperational for a few days with some dirty tricks, we aint just talking about christmas cards behind the lockers!!

As I could make out each Infantry regiment now has an Airborne Company soldiers are chosen at random during training and do the jumps course and no other training. There were members of the ex airborne regiment still serving and they arent allowed to be part of the airborne Coys, They are very bitter about this and call the blokes in the airborne Coys "Cherrys" after the red maple leafs on there wings.

Old Airborne regiment insignia is banned and not allowed on T shirts etc although many of the Airborne Regiment blokes have tatoos and badges sewn inside there jackets!..... bizzare

The video in question apparentley featured a couple of locals who were caught in a compound stealing being spit roasted over a fire during a Coy smoker, I have only been told and not seen.

All Canadian military ops are now dry tours with severe punishment for offenders, although they still have the odd BBQ.......

This was all happening pre 97 so not sure what the crack is today.
 
#9
midwesterner said:
canada has infantrymen and infantrywomen.
More social experimenting by Politicians.
 
#11
Old news always seems to resurface.. like a toilet backup.. Stephen Harper the opposition leader who wants to be the next Canajan PM made an announcement that ,if elected, he would revive the Airborne Regiment...Hoorah.. and all that..

As for Women in combat roles.. Canada graduated its first combat infantrywoman in 1989 from Wainright, Alberta.. now its all old hat.. My daughter was part of 18 assigned to Combat Arms when she went to RMC [ class of 2001 ]...CF is always pushing to rectify the ' gender imbalance ' as a move to ' better repesent the population demographics ' in the country [ political meddling as policy ]
 
#13
Harry_Webster said:
All Canadian military ops are now dry tours with severe punishment for offenders, although they still have the odd BBQ.......
In Kabul in 2004 they were on "the two can rule" - so I chose to drink somewhere else.
 
#14
Harry_Webster said:
Done a few things with the Canadians, firstly they appear to outsiders as a divided army!!, they have French Canadian speaking Units and English Canadian speaking Units, there is lots of bitter twisted rivalry some of it from what I have seen is quite harsh.

All there pamphlets were printed front to centre in English, back to centre in French that included all daily orders.

I spent some time with the PTS at Greaseback Camp just before they moved to Trenton, here once again I was made welcome and was impressed by there work but still at SNCO level there was a divide of French/English.

On a handover from the vandoos? Infantry to the PPCLI Infantry in Bosnia the vandoos ensured that the PPCLI would be unoperational for a few days with some dirty tricks, we aint just talking about christmas cards behind the lockers!!

As I could make out each Infantry regiment now has an Airborne Company soldiers are chosen at random during training and do the jumps course and no other training. There were members of the ex airborne regiment still serving and they arent allowed to be part of the airborne Coys, They are very bitter about this and call the blokes in the airborne Coys "Cherrys" after the red maple leafs on there wings.

Old Airborne regiment insignia is banned and not allowed on T shirts etc although many of the Airborne Regiment blokes have tatoos and badges sewn inside there jackets!..... bizzare

The video in question apparentley featured a couple of locals who were caught in a compound stealing being spit roasted over a fire during a Coy smoker, I have only been told and not seen.

All Canadian military ops are now dry tours with severe punishment for offenders, although they still have the odd BBQ.......

This was all happening pre 97 so not sure what the crack is today.
I can pretty well back up all that

I had the pleasyre of sharing a corramec with the Canadian LO's driver and he told me all about the "hiding the airborne" thing, to emphise it he mentioned to his LO who smiled at me, lifted up his jacket to show his wings which where on his belt buckle. Even he, a Captain, had to hide it.

AS to the whole split army thing I can explain it with a little story. My friend and I were having a chat one night talking about artillery, he being RCHA and it turned out that it was something silly like 2 8 gun 4 bty regts outnumbered all the Canadian arty, something like that and he reeled off all the units. A short while later he piped up that there was more that he forgot, that was the French Speakers which he reckoned weren't really part of the Canadian army. I asked him if that was a fact or a personal opinion to which he said it was opinion, but one held by just about every english speaking soldier
 
#15
Registered a few days ago and this seems like a good place to jump in.

To clarify, generally Canadian deployments work on a two drinks per man per day basis, though considerable effort is usually put into finding ways around this. All official governent publications are issued in both official languages. This tradition of bilingualism goes back to the conquest of New France by Britain in 1759-60, it's enshrined in the constitution and we're pretty much stuck with it. Most French-Canadian soldiers can speak a good bit of English and most English-speaking soldiers know a little French, so comms isn't usually an issue. The differences between Canadian Infantry units, especially those of the Regular Force are considerable, and nasty tricks are commonplace (though those which affect operations are less usual).

Defence cuts in the early nineties meant there had to be cuts in the total strength of the Infantry Corps. This could have been done in ways other than deleting an entire regt from the orbat, but at that time the Canadian Airborne Regiment (CAR) had painted a rather large bullseye on itself. The incidents in Somalia are only part of the story. There was also a hazing video that made the news. Its been a while since I've seen excerpts, but if I recall it made the RM mat fighting flick look like a Disney film. The CAR was an embarrassment to the governement as well as the army as a whole, so it got the ax.

In my opinion, the disbanding of the CAR was a serious loss to the CF. While each of the light battalions of the Reg Force Infantry regts maintain one "jump company", the airborne skills are dispersed through the army and many of the CAR commando skills have been lost. The CAR could in all likelihood have been reform by a few courts marshal and a stern warning to get their shyte together. For a good insider's view read The Sharp End: A Canadian Soldier's Story by James Davis.
 
#16
OldRedCap

"Twp things say a heck of a lot to me. Canadian SF - almost an oxymoron in itself - and Canadian government. Rather like the ginger one's Liberals on a bad day. Almost a perfect description of a disaster when you put the two together."

I'm more than a little curious about your meaning here... are you saying that Canada lacks special forces capability, or that our special forces are a joke? I imagine the JTF 2 lads might have a comment or two about that. Perhaps you could clarify just a bit.
 
#17
Canadian SF - almost an oxymoron in itself
Just ignore his comments, hes obviously done a bit of SF stuff with a call sign like that......Not!

Welcome to Arse Toroscot, Cannuck Warrior, post in peace and no pork pies eh!
 
#18
Canuck_Warrior said:
.................. All official governent publications are issued in both official languages. This tradition of bilingualism goes back to the conquest of New France by Britain in 1759-60, it's enshrined in the constitution and we're pretty much stuck with it. .................
Prior to Trudeau, pubs were available in either language. Something that was far more cost effective than being published all in both languages.
Prior to Trudeau, Canada was not a bi-lingual nation. Any thought that there was a tradition of bilingualism in Canada prior to that is delusional.
While Trudeau's constitution may enshrine bilingualism, it does not include Quebec, who ironically did not agree with his constitution, and were not signors of it.
Also ironically, prior to Unification and Trudeau's bilingualism there was less rivalry between French speaking units and English speaking ones. One example, French Canadians who were Signalmen were proud of that and being part of the Corps of Signals . Now they are 'Transmissions'.
As memory serves, even the French Army have 'Signals'.

I've met very few French Canadian servicemen (the ones originating from Quebec) who actually considered themselves part of a 'Canadian' Armed Forces.
 
#19
It's not for nothing that Mark Steyn (a Canadian) refers to Canada as either Trudeaupia, the Diseased Dominion, or Canukistan.

It would make a fascinating study to look at how the Liberal Party has systematically stripped Canada of its traditions, ruined its Armed Forces, divided its people amongst themselves, sought to sever its links with Britain (to the political benefit of the Liberals) and usher in the reign of the PC thought police.
 
#20
That was what really got to me in Canada, in the English speaking part, everythings announced in french and english printed in both etc. go to french speaking parts and they only announce things in bloody french, typical french hypocrisy. The way I had it explained to me was that yeah the inf units have jump companies in them, so in theory they could mount a parachute assault with a coming together of these companies. I was also told that when they binned the airborne, the SF were changing and the JTF was evolving so quite a few of the airborne guys went to JTF. Sadly the canadian airborne has recently suffered another blow, whilst we were over their an airborne unit based on the same site we were staying at beat a homeless fella to death outside the base after a night on the lash. Whilst this wasn't done on duty or on ops and is in essence a matter for the civilian courts and nothing really to do with them being army, the press draw the inevitable conclusions. I agree with the divided army point as well not only between the french and english speaking units but also, the reserve and regular, this is gonna be controversial but was definately the view shared by everyone I spoke to. The regs are predominantly white canadians, whilst the reserves are technicolour, all sorts of people koreans, chinese, pakistanis, russians and other eastern european types etc. This divide was so great that the reserve guys I was with were really crapping themselves about being caught by the enemy which were supposedly some 'elite' lot, 2 RCR for the record, because they knew that they'd get hammered because of being korean or whatever. Before I come under attack I am only repeating what I was told by the Canucks over their.
 

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