Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by jumpinjarhead, Mar 31, 2010.
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It looks like it may be Canada's turn in the "Abu Ghraib" spotlight.
Edited to clarify the title
Yeah, Canuckistans abu whatsit would consist of denying them colour satelite tv and timmy's
Perhaps but some incidents in Somalia involving abuse of prisoners that led to the sad demise of its Airborne Regiment may suggest otherwise. Such things can happen in ANY military if leaders get complacent.
I agree, but I thought the Canadian controversy is mainly about the alleged mistreatment by Afghan national forces (ANA/ANP) of detainees transferred to them by Canadian forces ... an allegation which has also been made against other ISAF contingents ... but is not about direct mistreatment by the Canadians themselves.
The opposition parties like the Liberals are eager to paint our soldiers as monsters and not as the heroes that they are,to fire up their base just to score some political points,they're a fcuking disgrace ever since Trudeau came to power.
First let me make it clear I am not trying to sully the Canadian forces in any way but was only sympathizing to the extent they get similiar media treatment as did US forces generally for crimes of a few. As for your point about Canadian troops not being directly involved, the law is that a capturing force is responsible for captives they hand over to others for detention.
Thanks for that re not sullying Canadian forces in any way. I appreciate that and of course accept what you say.
Over here we are aware of the responsibilities of the Detaining Power under the Third Geneva Convention, but the situation still isn't comparable with Abu Ghraib.
In my view we should be slow to blame troops (as opposed to their government, which should certainly be engaged with such issues) for transferring detainees to the lawful recognised security forces of the host nation.
I agree completely and by my reference to "Abu Ghraib" did not intend to put the situations on a par in any substantive sense but only to the extent the media tends to paint with a very wide brush and accuse, try, convict and hang all in a headline. That was the reason I used the term "spotlight."
Having seen how our military (and especially my service) is so often attacked in the media coverage of various incidents often without regard to the facts or the rights of those involved, I would not intentionally ever do that to any other service of our allies. At the same time and as I have repeatedly said elsewhere, I do not in any way condone criminal conduct by US forces or any other military for that matter and believe when such things occur they need to be quickly and thoroughly investigated and the "chips" should fall wherever the evidence leads.
The abuse of prisoners issue is something I will read about with interest. As for the Canadian Airborne Regiment....... We didn't see newsreel film of dead Cannucks being burned and the bodies towed along behind "technical" cars while the Airborne were there. And lets not forget that we are dealing with people (Somali's) who took the whole population of wimmin and children from the town of Hargeisa and machine gunned them all to death on top of a nearby hill. I am not saying that I condone the Airborne regiments activities but it sure as hell got the Somali's attention.
I sympathiz(s)e with your points. A couple of observations--with respect to the horrific treatment of the noncombatants, it is generally the rule (notwithstanding the unjustified accusations against our forces generally by various anti-war/anti-"west" groups and individuals) that the US, UK and our traditional allies typically go to "war" against the "bad guys" who usually have no qualms about such things.
As for the specific incident that mushroomed into the scandal that ultimately brought down such a fine regiment and a number of officers, it was in fact a brutal and fatal beating of a teen-aged thief. This then was compounded by a "cover up" of sorts. These aspects went beyond the sort of aggressive force protection that you are alluding to.
Thanks for the amplification. As I said, I don't condone what happened. But there is no doubt that the Somali`s thought twice before screwing with the cannucks.
And I agree that the bad guys will often claim that US, Brit and other forces use inhumane tactics when such is not the case. As an example I was present immediately after one of the breakouts of IRA scum from the Maze prison. At the time the media, especially the `Republican`` media were screaming about the brutal treatment of the escapees by the army and prison officers. It was all horse crap.
Regrettably not much new under the sun in that regard. Be careful out there and enjoy some nÆ°á»c máº¯m pha for me.
Aha, nÆ°á»c máº¯m pha, or rotten fish sauce, as I once heard it described. An acquired taste, but once the taste is acquired, its very good with the likes of Gá»i cuá»n as you will indeed know. Careful is my middle name, I am a devout coward!
The thing that is usually over-looked in the western media is that we find such things far more shocking than do people in Afghanistan and Iraq. Most of them just shrug their shoulders and say 'well, that's what happens in prison, isn't it?'.
This is quite correct. Oddly, to me at least, what is happening is that legislation such as the ECHR - EU Convention on Human Rights - is now considered, by our Courts, to be extra-territorial. This means that we must ensure that, if we are to hand over anyone to a foreign Justice system, that they will treat them in the same way as would a Euro system - and in most of the world, sorry, that is not going to happen, and probably never will - and there are many cultural/political/practical/even religious reasons for this.
What is does provide is a very useful stick to beat the Government/Army with, for those who, for other reasons, do not either like our activities in foreign countries, and/or just hate the military. It also provides certain legal areas with a large fund of 'cases', all of which are eligible for Legal Aid, to keep te wolf from the (Matrix) Chambers doors.
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