Canada kicks the F-35 in the nuts

#3
How long before ours is scrapped? When we take delivery but cant fly them due to no software and after storing them for half a generation and billions wasted converting them into sopwith camels?

Cynical, me???

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#4
I would have thought that the logical choice for Canada was the Rhino - a proven airframe with proven systems, already in service with the USN and RAAF and with twin-engines for Arctic operations.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
they could buy some delivery mileage, mostly all there, typhoons off us. not very stealthy and they cant do ground attack yet but you couldn't get a more non cost effective platform this side of the f22.

buy enough and we might even throw in a not very fast sub or an anti air platform with limited capability.

I reckon they should buy russian though, the yanks would be creaming their pants to get some decent pre china practice in.
 
#6
How long before ours is scrapped? When we take delivery but cant fly them due to no software and after storing them for half a generation and billions wasted converting them into sopwith camels?

Cynical, me???

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STVOL F-35 is the least vulnerable of the F-35 variants. The people who need STVOL have to buy it, the CTOL buyers have options.
 
#7
I wouldn't quite believe that article, as it's written by the Toronto "Red" Star, a newspaper that's held in about as much popular esteem as The Daily Mail is in the UK for trustworthiness.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#9
they could buy some delivery mileage, mostly all there, typhoons off us. not very stealthy and they cant do ground attack yet but you couldn't get a more non cost effective platform this side of the f22.

buy enough and we might even throw in a not very fast sub or an anti air platform with limited capability.

I reckon they should buy russian though, the yanks would be creaming their pants to get some decent pre china practice in.
Christ you talk shite, no matter what the evidence you keep regurgitating the same old bollox time and time again.
 
#11
Actually all the Conservatives are doing is holding the line on the F35 whilst promising to do errrrrr nothing else really.

An independent report came out today regarding budget costs which basically said that the numbers although slightly higher than projected are in line with expected costs. Naturally the leftie Newspapers are all over this like a bird strike through a jet engine.

The problem is, Canada agreed to spend $9 Billion on replacement Jets no more no less. This meant that 5 years ago they could have theoretically obtained 65 frames. As the cost rises, through no fault of the Can Gov, $9B can only pay for 45 frames. So the question has now become, well if we look elsewhere we could purchase xxxxxx company Jets and maybe up the figure from 45 to 55 frames.

So once again we have another Government fiasco in the works, although it was the Lefty Liberals who signed the deal in the 1st place, the now in power Tories are going to get a shit kicking, the deal will be cancelled, committees will spend yet another $One Billion Trillion pretending to look for a replacement, and 3 more pilots will die in CF18 crashes, meanwhile, the USA politicos will grab the PM`s nuts and whisper `listen you under populated country fuckwits, if you don`t buy the F35 we will withdraw blah, blah, companies from Canada and blah, blah, contracts`. Result, in 5 years time Canada will have 11 F35`s at the original cost of $9b. Or more likely the Libs will get back in power and start back at square one again so Canada will get 1 Typhoon or 1 x 2nd hand Harrier from Nigeria.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
There's a chap called Ward that the Canucks could hire as a consultant ..
 
#16
STVOL F-35 is the least vulnerable of the F-35 variants. The people who need STVOL have to buy it, the CTOL buyers have options.
except that the F-35B's main customer 'has' to buy it beause their doctrine/CONOPS is mentally deranged - when someone has the balls to publicly challenge such a fantasyland doctrine the B is going to be deader than TSR2, and much less lamented.

lets go through it - the USMC needs a 5th gen, mach 1.6 all aspect stealth aircraft in order to support opposed amphibious landings that the USN and its carrier battle groups are too busy to attend.

really, can anyone imagine any scenario where the USMC carries out a large scale amphibious operation against an enemy equipped with a modern, high capability air defence network, but where the US president decides not to park half the USN off the coast?

its batshit insane, its so ****ing mental that it defies any conceivable logic.

moreover the F-35B is so expensive that it can't be used in the USMC's vaunted 'forward deployed' role for CAS - the recent Taliban attack on Bastion destroyed/wrote off 8 AV-8B's, had the unit been equipped with F-35B, the US Government would have watched around $1bn go up in smoke for the cost of 14 nobody's, some AK-47's and a dozen grenades.

the USMC would be far better off with its Assualt Ships carrying 5 times as many AH-64's as F-35B's...
 
#17
the USMC would be far better off with its Assualt Ships carrying 5 times as many AH-64's as F-35B's...
USMC likes having it's own aircraft cos there may not be enough spare aircraft from even a two carrier group to provide enough ground attack.

In therory F35B should have more range than an AH-64 meaning that either carrier can sit further offshore or the F35B can range further inland. An option you never know when you may need it.....
 
#18
its batshit insane, its so ****ing mental that it defies any conceivable logic.
The 'logic' is that the USMC likes being an armed force within an armed force and absofuckinglutely hates being supported by anything or anyone that isn't USMC. It also has to equip itself differently to the rest of the US armed forces just to show how different it is.
British armed forces have nothing on US inter-service bickering.

The USMC would be far better off with its Assualt Ships carrying 5 times as many AH-64's as F-35B's...
It would be and probably would have them if it wasn't for the point above: someone else has AH-64, USMC has got to be different. If they weren't, someone important might notice how much overlap there is and how bloated the US military is. This would not be acceptable to either the DoD or the major arms contractors.

Money comes before efficacy.
 
#19
I've said from the start that the F-35 was the wrong choice, the RCAF does not need steath, as I doubt that we will ever be in on day one of a bombing campaign. The Typhoon II, Super Hornet, or the Gripen would serve us very well at a lower cost, or we could spend the same and get more. 65 aircraft is just not enough for the second largest country in the world.
 
#20
except that the F-35B's main customer 'has' to buy it beause their doctrine/CONOPS is mentally deranged - when someone has the balls to publicly challenge such a fantasyland doctrine the B is going to be deader than TSR2, and much less lamented.

lets go through it - the USMC needs a 5th gen, mach 1.6 all aspect stealth aircraft in order to support opposed amphibious landings that the USN and its carrier battle groups are too busy to attend.

really, can anyone imagine any scenario where the USMC carries out a large scale amphibious operation against an enemy equipped with a modern, high capability air defence network, but where the US president decides not to park half the USN off the coast?

its batshit insane, its so ****ing mental that it defies any conceivable logic.

moreover the F-35B is so expensive that it can't be used in the USMC's vaunted 'forward deployed' role for CAS - the recent Taliban attack on Bastion destroyed/wrote off 8 AV-8B's, had the unit been equipped with F-35B, the US Government would have watched around $1bn go up in smoke for the cost of 14 nobody's, some AK-47's and a dozen grenades.

the USMC would be far better off with its Assualt Ships carrying 5 times as many AH-64's as F-35B's...


All very valid points, but the USMC has built an entire future force, including all the shiny ships, around this mad fantasy of theirs, so, F-35B would be the last cut of any cuts.
 
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