Canada Expels U.S. Woman Deserter

#1
BBC Story

I'm a bit surprised it actually happened. I don't know how much popular support expat deserters have, but I'm glad the Canadian government has treated it as a matter of law.

What a fcuking idiot.
 
#2
Mr. Wensley of Canada said it best, "If all soldiers refused to fight in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies, there would be no more such wars. She should be allowed to stay."
 
#4
KevinB said:
Mr. Wensley of Canada said it best, "If all soldiers refused to fight in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies, there would be no more such wars. She should be allowed to stay."
What about those fighting who believe in it or enjoy killing? By those, for example, i mean the perpetrators of the Rwandan and a Darfurian genocides, or the good old classic, Hitler.

A perfect world has no need for armies, a perfect world this is not.
 
#6
If you aren't willing to step up your colleagues are better off without you.

Its quite emotive how you label your "Deserter" "conscientious objector" etc

I'm not going to judge anybodies motives especially a women with 3 kids and an Iraq tour under her belt (remembering how long the septics do on their tours)
 
#7
If you take the money you do what they tell you to.

IMO, running away is the coward's option. You signed your name; if you can't follow through on your promises then you serve your punishment.

KevB; discipline is doing what you're told and complaining later. Peoples' perception of "immoral" wars differs hugely, and in this country no-one press-gangs anyone into joining the forces.
 
#8
KevinB said:
box-of-frogs said:
Mr Wensley of Canada is clearly a tw@ then just like you.
So then, you've no problem fighting "in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies.." ?
Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, there isn't a box you can check for that option when you sign the papers.

If she is a conscientious objector, that's her right, but there are legal consequences for handling it in the way she's chosen to do - hence the reason she split the country in the first place. I don't blame her for not wanting to do a prison stretch with kids, but serving her time and getting out would have made this whole thing a non-issue.
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#10
KevinB said:
box-of-frogs said:
Mr Wensley of Canada is clearly a tw@ then just like you.
So then, you've no problem fighting "in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies.." ?
And of course the war waged by the IRA was legal and moral wasn't it? You hypocritical twat.
 
#12
Bravo_Zulu said:
KevB; discipline is doing what you're told and complaining later. quote]

I believe this defence was quite profoundly explored in the Nuremburg trials? It didn't hold water then.

Don't we teach something in Values and Standards about having moral courage to do the right thing? If for whatever reason she has had an epiphany then fair play. I do agree there is a penalty for this though.

Then again it's no more repugnant than the US preventing people signing off ( I can't recall what the name for this is)
 
#13
KevinB said:
box-of-frogs said:
Mr Wensley of Canada is clearly a tw@ then just like you.
So then, you've no problem fighting "in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies.." ?
Evidently neither have you; Omagh and Enniskillen:






NM: from your perspective as military police, if a soldiers fails to comply with an order which is not unlawful but he/she feels is immoral, what would be the consequences both for the soldier and the issuer of the order?
 
#14
In all likelihood the soldier would be arrested by the unit and charged. Disobeying a lawful command would not automatically merit a police investigation. Much depends on whether the order was in fact immoral. Whether it is a lawful command could also hinge upon the morality of it and morality for any sort of courts martial would have to be explored by the court.

The programme (possibly immorally initiated by the US) to stop soldiers signing off is the "Stop Loss" programme. If the woman has come to the conclusion army life is in some way offencive to her and has been prevented from leaving by Stop-Loss then I have some sympathy for her.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#16
KevinB said:
box-of-frogs said:
Mr Wensley of Canada is clearly a tw@ then just like you.
So then, you've no problem fighting "in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies.." ?
Unlike the wholly honest and truthful moral 'campaign' engaged in by Sinn Fein/IRA in Ireland.

I don't think I've ever heard a truthful word come from the lips of any of those cowardly scum.
 
#17
KevinB said:
Mr. Wensley of Canada said it best, "If all soldiers refused to fight in illegal and immoral wars waged on lies, there would be no more such wars. She should be allowed to stay."
Are you Canadian?

Who decides which wars are immoral or based on lies?

Which wars have you been involved in?
 
#18
First, Ms. Rivera did serve a tour in Iraq - so it is not that she is a coward, etc. It could just be that what she witnessed there changed her mind - so, should she be punished for that? At the most, she should have to fulfill non-combatant duties - not be put in prison.

"She said some soldiers "hyped-up on adrenalin," would talk about how they destroyed people's homes. That's when she knew the war was "immoral."

"I don't think you really know what you are getting yourself into . . . You don't know how you will be affected until you return and are plagued by things you can't imagine," she said, cradling her newborn daughter, her voice shaking."
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Army+deserter+stay+Canada+rejected/1151432/story.html

"...Soldiers that have this change of heart fall into three main groups, says McNeil.

The first group contains ”those who go into the military understanding war and are willing to accept it”, she says. ”But then something happens during their service and they are no longer OK with war.”

The second group contains people who have ”sought out spiritual growth and have come to believe that God doesn't want them to participate in war.”

The third, and biggest, group, she says, is made up of young, often naive, people who join the military in their late teens. They are often poor whites, blacks or Hispanics, who either have limited employment opportunities, or are looking for a way to fund their college education.

Because military recruiters target poor youth in urban centres - the so-called ”poverty draft” - this is probably the fastest-growing group of COs as well as the biggest, added McNeil. "

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17584
 
#19
Thats bullshit. A tired old excuse because she has been caught out.

If she felt that strongly about it she should have left when she returned from the first tour.
 
#20
KevinB said:
First, Ms. Rivera did serve a tour in Iraq - so it is not that she is a coward, etc. It could just be that what she witnessed there changed her mind - so, should she be punished for that? At the most, she should have to fulfill non-combatant duties - not be put in prison.

"She said some soldiers "hyped-up on adrenalin," would talk about how they destroyed people's homes. That's when she knew the war was "immoral."

"I don't think you really know what you are getting yourself into . . . You don't know how you will be affected until you return and are plagued by things you can't imagine," she said, cradling her newborn daughter, her voice shaking."
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Army+deserter+stay+Canada+rejected/1151432/story.html

"...Soldiers that have this change of heart fall into three main groups, says McNeil.

The first group contains ”those who go into the military understanding war and are willing to accept it”, she says. ”But then something happens during their service and they are no longer OK with war.”

The second group contains people who have ”sought out spiritual growth and have come to believe that God doesn't want them to participate in war.”

The third, and biggest, group, she says, is made up of young, often naive, people who join the military in their late teens. They are often poor whites, blacks or Hispanics, who either have limited employment opportunities, or are looking for a way to fund their college education.

Because military recruiters target poor youth in urban centres - the so-called ”poverty draft” - this is probably the fastest-growing group of COs as well as the biggest, added McNeil. "

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17584
I find it ironic that a "man" such as yourself preaches about the illegality and destruction of War in Iraq, yet is quite happy to be involved in terrorism that lead to the destruction of thousands of innocent lives. Your hypocrisy is outstanding
 

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