Canada arrests Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

@KGB_resident - Under your resoning, your innocent tourists are being prevented from getting to clear their names in court due to Russia’s policy of zero extradition
As for the 'tourists' then from formal point of view they haven't done anything unlawful. There are only unconfirmed allegations. The Skripals themselves haven't confirmed that they ever returned home that day. Without it the allegations look as not sufficiently elaborated. So British justice has a home work - to question the Skripals first and if they didn't return home then the 'tourists' have an alibi.
 
They are going through the process of establishing whether the extradition stands up in Canadian law.
I'm not sure being detained indefinitely without trial is made any more palatable by the detainers' hearts being in the right place.
 
We don't hear much about the two Canadians held in China widely reported as being a reciprocal arrest for the ongoing extradition process of Meng. Apparently David Mulroney expects their plight to get even worse. He's the former Ambo to the PRC:

"My takeaway is that this (decision) is not good news for the two Michaels," he said Wednesday. "That's human and personal. It affects two Canadians who are victims in this, who are being held hostage, and we can never forget that."

 
As for the 'tourists' then from formal point of view they haven't done anything unlawful. There are only unconfirmed allegations. The Skripals themselves haven't confirmed that they ever returned home that day. Without it the allegations look as not sufficiently elaborated. So British justice has a home work - to question the Skripals first and if they didn't return home then the 'tourists' have an alibi.
.... and that's a reset back in time ....
Allegations are allegations until proven in court.
Evidence is for in court.
What do you, the ordinary Russian citizen, know what the Skripals have or have not told investigators?
The 'alibi' presented by the tourists on Russian TV is already known to be factually incorrect
 
.... and that's a reset back in time ....
Allegations are allegations until proven in court.
Evidence is for in court.
What do you, the ordinary Russian citizen, know what the Skripals have or have not told investigators?
The 'alibi' presented by the tourists on Russian TV is already known to be factually incorrect
They have not to prove anything. The burden of proof is completely on the British side. Still there is nothing that can be remotely regarded as a proof. There is no even more or less plausible version of events.
The discussion could be endless and it is not the right thread for such a discussion.
 
We don't hear much about the two Canadians held in China widely reported as being a reciprocal arrest for the ongoing extradition process of Meng. Apparently David Mulroney expects their plight to get even worse. He's the former Ambo to the PRC:

"My takeaway is that this (decision) is not good news for the two Michaels," he said Wednesday. "That's human and personal. It affects two Canadians who are victims in this, who are being held hostage, and we can never forget that."

The Canadians were detained long ago. So why Canadian government doesn't insist on free and fair trial as soon as possible?
 
The Canadians were detained long ago.
Yep, a few days after Meng’s arrest I understand.
So why Canadian government doesn't insist on free and fair trial as soon as possible?
They have asked for their release. As formal charges don’t appear to have been laid and apparently no access to lawyers, how do they even get a trial?

Mulroney is quite vocal:
“The Chinese want us to confer a certain dignity on their process, but it’s very nakedly a quid pro quo,” Mr. Mulroney said. It simply follows every step and development in the Canadian legal process for Ms. Meng, he added.

“Madame Meng is being treated with great respect. She lives in comfort in Vancouver while our poor Canadians are stuck in a Chinese prison with very little access to fresh air and good food and no access to family and friends," Mr. Mulroney said.
No Consular access since January either it would appear:
“We have been a little bit in the dark since January, really, because no [Canadian] consular officials have seen him directly,” Praveen Madhiraju, general counsel for the Washington-based ICG, said in an interview Wednesday.

“It’s 500 days too long. They should not have been arrested in the first place and there is no legitimate case against them.”
 
They have not to prove anything. The burden of proof is completely on the British side. Still there is nothing that can be remotely regarded as a proof. There is no even more or less plausible version of events.
The discussion could be endless and it is not the right thread for such a discussion.
Ditto for Meng
The burden of proof lies at a later date in court in the US, they do not need to prove the case currently in Canada
For the tourists an arrest warrant has been raised as it is deemed that there is sufficient evidence presented to those who need it to sign off the warrant.
Extradition has not been requested as doing so with Russia is pointless.
The evidence is not for public consumption until presented in court.

For Meng an arrest warrant has been raised and Canada were asked to act upon it.
As a civilised country they have placed her under curfew and are determining if the extradition would be valid from Canada.

Again the evidence and assessing of her guilt or innocence of the offence are for a US court.
That will only happen if Canada deems the extradition valid, which is going through the process along with her legal team representing her to prevent extradition.
 
Yep, a few days after Meng’s arrest I understand.

They have asked for their release. As formal charges don’t appear to have been laid and apparently no access to lawyers, how do they even get a trial?

Mulroney is quite vocal:

No Consular access since January either it would appear:
Consular access? Chinese authorities refer to COVID pandemic and related protective measures. And anyway previously the consular access was granted.
By contrast the consular access to Yulia Skripal was not granted even to see that she indeed doesn't wish to see Russian diplomats or anybody.
Ditto for Meng
The burden of proof lies at a later date in court in the US, they do not need to prove the case currently in Canada
For the tourists an arrest warrant has been raised as it is deemed that there is sufficient evidence presented to those who need it to sign off the warrant.
Extradition has not been requested as doing so with Russia is pointless.
The evidence is not for public consumption until presented in court.

For Meng an arrest warrant has been raised and Canada were asked to act upon it.
As a civilised country they have placed her under curfew and are determining if the extradition would be valid from Canada.

Again the evidence and assessing of her guilt or innocence of the offence are for a US court.
That will only happen if Canada deems the extradition valid, which is going through the process along with her legal team representing her to prevent extradition.
Indeed Canadian justice has not to prove that ms.Meng is guilty. Their task is in fact simple one:
- to check are American papers for extradition properly written
- to check double criminality question.
If both tests are passed then it is up to Canadian government to decide.
But for apparent political reasons the Canadian government wishes to postpone any decision about extradition.
As a result likely there will be years long process and poor Canadians likely will remain in Chinese jail for years.
 
Consular access? Chinese authorities refer to COVID pandemic and related protective measures. And anyway previously the consular access was granted.
Of course they do. It’s not quite the same as Meng though is it?
By contrast the consular access to Yulia Skripal was not granted even to see that she indeed doesn't wish to see Russian diplomats or anybody.
I’m sure you said this was the wrong thread to discuss the Skripal’s?
Indeed Canadian justice has not to prove that ms.Meng is guilty.
Nope. Just whether there is a case to answer, whether there’s an abuse of process etc. ‘Guilt’ or ‘innocence’ resides with a US Court.
Their task is in fact simple one:
- to check are American papers for extradition properly written
- to check double criminality question.
If both tests are passed then it is up to Canadian government to decide.
But for apparent political reasons the Canadian government wishes to postpone any decision about extradition.
That’s not quite true, there’s lots of avenues of Appeal which undoubtedly Meng will take as is her right.
As a result likely there will be years long process and poor Canadians likely will remain in Chinese jail for years.
Likely, but that appears to be the game being played.
 
I’m sure you said this was the wrong thread to discuss the Skripal’s?
Complaints about delays in consular access make it possible to recall similar cases.
As for the extradition request in Meng's case then there was no one in the Skripal's case. So it is impossible to make comparison.
 
Complaints about delays in consular access make it possible to recall similar cases.
One being requested by a person imprisoned, the other not being requested by a person in hiding from her own govt.
As for the extradition request in Meng's case then there was no one in the Skripal's case. So it is impossible to make comparison.
Nope, but the two Michael’s remain in custody and without charge let alone legal representation tmk.
 
Just one point of order, Russia may inhabit the Eurasian Plate, but it isn't in Europe consequently it is merely a first among itself in terms of it's political prisoners. But otherwise much is an open secret that KGB resident seeks to defend. There are potentially probably just a handful of countries that match Russia in terms of their incarcerative doings. Otherwise an excellent piece.
 
Complaints about delays in consular access make it possible to recall similar cases.
As for the extradition request in Meng's case then there was no one in the Skripal's case. So it is impossible to make comparison.
well of course it is, Russia doesn't inhabit the same planet does it, Perhaps a bit more of the Crime and Punishment or Solzhenitzhyn during bed time.
 
Just one point of order, Russia may inhabit the Eurasian Plate, but it isn't in Europe consequently it is merely a first among itself in terms of it's political prisoners. But otherwise much is an open secret that KGB resident seeks to defend. There are potentially probably just a handful of countries that match Russia in terms of their incarcerative doings. Otherwise an excellent piece.
I don't understand it - what is your point?
Incarceration rate per 100,000 population
1. USA 655
10. Virgin islands (UK) 470
21. Russia 363 (523,928 prisoners)
Btw, according to your source there are 467,000 prisoners in Russia. So the rate now is about 324 and what?
 
(...) Indeed Canadian justice has not to prove that ms.Meng is guilty. Their task is in fact simple one:
- to check are American papers for extradition properly written
- to check double criminality question.
If both tests are passed then it is up to Canadian government to decide.
But for apparent political reasons the Canadian government wishes to postpone any decision about extradition.
As a result likely there will be years long process and poor Canadians likely will remain in Chinese jail for years.
The Canadian court also needs to check if the Americans have enough evidence already in hand to justify a trial. The court won't rule on what that evidence indicates with respect to her guilt or innocence, just whether the Americans had enough evidence already or whether they were attempting a fishing expedition.

There is also the abuse of process claims against Canadian authorities which have not been addressed yet.

Finally, there can be an appeal to the Canadian government to quash the extradition process if it is believed that the request by the US is politically motivated. Statements made by the very highest authorities in the US will play a part in this.

There were also several months delay due to the COVID-19 pandemic as BC was the first province in Canada to see a significant degree of infection. They handled it well and it is more or less over now and their overall infection and death rate have turned out to be quite low compared to other parts of the world where it appeared later.
 
The Canadian court also needs to check if the Americans have enough evidence already in hand to justify a trial. The court won't rule on what that evidence indicates with respect to her guilt or innocence, just whether the Americans had enough evidence already or whether they were attempting a fishing expedition.
I see. But is it so difficult task that requires years to resolve it? I strongly doubt.
There is also the abuse of process claims against Canadian authorities which have not been addressed yet.
It is a separate question that can be regarded in parallel.
Finally, there can be an appeal to the Canadian government to quash the extradition process if it is believed that the request by the US is politically motivated. Statements made by the very highest authorities in the US will play a part in this.
The appeal to the Canadian government can be answered within one day.
There were also several months delay due to the COVID-19 pandemic as BC was the first province in Canada to see a significant degree of infection. They handled it well and it is more or less over now and their overall infection and death rate have turned out to be quite low compared to other parts of the world where it appeared later.
So the Chinese could prolong detention of two Canadians using COVID argument as well, could they?
 
I don't understand it - what is your point?
Incarceration rate per 100,000 population
1. USA 655
10. Virgin islands (UK) 470
21. Russia 363 (523,928 prisoners)
Btw, according to your source there are 467,000 prisoners in Russia. So the rate now is about 324 and what?
Er it’s not my source, I merely quoted it. Now my little geographer, from what I recal, it refers to European, not America. You have the Atlantic on one side and Pacific on the other. it seems you are making a point that I never made
 
Er it’s not my source, I merely quoted it. Now my little geographer, from what I recal, it refers to European, not America. You have the Atlantic on one side and Pacific on the other. it seems you are making a point that I never made
We live in a big global World and it is not logical to regard Europe separately moreover in the thread devoted to the Chinese businesswoman detained in Canada to be extradited to the USA.
And anyway number of prisoners per capita in Turkey (NATO member and European country) is quite close to the respective number for Russia. Btw, Lithuania has very high number of prisoners and what?
 

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